OK lets preface this with this common understanding. If any structure is removed within a day of creation, these should not be subject to the ToS. With that any pyramid, forward assault outpost, or even barrier around a base would be immune since it should be gone. HOWEVER I have yet to see that happen in practice. Everyone speaks of it as the ideal but I have not seen this in action within the official servers I frequent. These structures are remain for weeks if not months. Many times outliving the base that was subject to the assault. I am speaking of the actual realities of these structures and not the idealized versions that, as far as I have seen, are myths.
My opinions on these PVP structures are based from a longer and more historic and holistic view of PVP and how it relates to server health. Also comes from the actions/inactions of FC in terms of PVP and how they handle complaints and revise the game based on the input of the PVP community. While my own opinion on these are very much antagonistic, there is actual more objective reasons these are a problem as the player base, as a whole throughout all server types, have a true issue with litter and hoarding.
So my points of treating it all the same is valid since that is what I see FC has done. Even with pleas from all player types to segregate throughout the entire length of the game, they have continuously viewed all play types as linked towards the common single game with the only variable being harvest rates. This is why I state PVP needs to be monitored identically to that of PVE and PVE-C because ToS is about the rules of all official servers and the closest thing we have to a true intent of the online game. Tystin has a valid point in that the…exploits that PVPers are known to use that are clearly against the rules require an experienced detective to root out but Skybases and undermeshing should also be considered illegal in PVE even if there is no true advantage to do so simply because consistency matters to ensure the message is understood. The amounts of these specific violations is most likely small if not incredibly rare in PVE environments but still illegal.
I guess this is just a long winded version of me saying we are all playing the same game and that official servers have the same rules regardless of play type and should be enforced in the same way.
Right, i understood that. I do not think increasing my list of servers to inspect in my hypothetical job would allow me to do the best work. Am I wrong in thinking you are objecting to my workload in this non-existent position does not include an additional long list of official pvp servers?
If so, this the part i do not comprehend, since I would have a much larger workload. I do not see what is wrong with me only handling what I can effectively and throughly handle and another person doing the same but for pvp. If i am wrong, please help me understand.
The diference is what it applied in theory , pvpers need war pyramids and f.o.bs , pvers dont . Pvpers need to protect there base from other players pvers dont , so building styles are diferent and land claim also .
Agree there but I would suggest that PVE is going to be a lot more than what you are bargining for. PVP folks (while very vocal) do have this acceptance of the temporary nature of things. An admin wipe, while annoying, isn’t the end of the world since you go into PVP with the idea that it’s going to fall eventually. PVE isn’t that way and so there is going to be obscene amounts of emotion when enforcement happens. I would suggest at least a 5 person crew just for PVE for the first 3 months and you might as well have 2-3 CSR’s dedicated to deal with zendesk complaints during that time. As far as forums go, you might as well put those under a "OOS due to maintenance " for at least 3 weeks.
If Funcom were willing to do a closed trial, I would love to at least try my hand at it. Then, once the data they need to make the final decision is collected I can accept whether my effort was worth it or not.
If a server is particularly active (which you cannot tell simply by checking the server browser), what you are looking to do requires multiple people for a server. You cannot simply do just a rotation of servers.
One of the reasons private servers have much better moderation is they have an entire team of moderators. This is why for FC servers they have an actual training process because they cannot rely on active moderation but have to use passive moderation (waiting on reports rather than catching people in the act of whatever rule they are violating in).
Another thing to understand is the culture of those servers is slightly different. Players choose to play on the public servers because they don’t have a moderator breathing down their neck. This isn’t to say everyone is trying to break a rule. But they want a certain level of privacy that makes them feel more comfortable than having someone flying around and through or under their bases all the time or even periodically.
The problem those servers unfortunately have is some players think that is a game (their words actually, I’m not making this description up). So they press the limits to see how far they can go before getting caught or reported. Crying foul when they catch heat before they believe they have crossed the line. Where in reality, it would be better for them and the players around them if they didn’t do that and just played the game normally.
But your suggestion seems interesting, and I would have asked years ago why they don’t have some doing it. But the logistics of such is quite a bit, and to be honest, its not really wanted on those servers. If they wanted active moderation, then they would already be playing elsewhere. They probably want to keep their privacy.
No offense, but I don’t understand why people keep thinking that my suggestion includes players being able to see me flying around when I’ve stated in my main post that I would prefer the ability to be undetectable, meaning they can not see me or interact with me.
Apologies, I’m not trying to be antagonistic or anything
I don’t think any of us are viewing your posts as antagonistic. However I will tell you that your visibility is irrelevant to the issue that Taemien is pointing out. It’s being held accountable and/or distrust of those that are enforcing accountability. Seeing the angel of death isn’t the concern but the being acted upon would be.
See I don’t do Privates because there are very few options where the admin/owners are not playing. IMHO, that is a conflict of interest that I’m not willing to entertain since I don’t know these folks well enough. A group of good friends? Sure I can deal with that because we are actually friends but a group of strangers? Yeah no, I don’t trust anyone to have access to being god AND playing the game. DM’s are not PC’s and the game is really ruined when they are. And since all privates (on consoles) must be through g-portal and therefore an actual cost is associated, it will always an issue as those paying for it are justified in their feelings they should play. That’s fine but they play without me until we are actually friends with trust built.
Now for you managing officials (or most anyone really). As long as you are not playing, that is fine by me. We do need more active management as the passive methods aren’t working as they thought. I just see it as more trouble since you will have quite a few upset folks that never got reported on prior.
Ever played Rust? Where you got one single wall every so meter in hotspots? People set those while they get shooted on so they can cover to heal up. No Rust player ever would call that cheesy and report you for this because its a tactical retreat.
Conan Exiles is the only game I personally know of where 90% of pvp players report each other on a daily basis for bogus claims because they know they do not have to face any concequences for doing it. Every time a player comes up with a tactic it gets reported immediately. And while the reporters start using this tactic themselfs the initial user gets banned for bs reasons.
I find it funny that there is a mode called pvp in this game but yet people get forced into playing it like its pve by a tos that is neither made to include pvp nor does it work. And yet people that try to still play that mode get lectured by a bunch of couch potato players what is acceptable in pvp and what not.
Okay, I was just worried, you know with text missing the voice and all.
That makes more sense.
Absolutely agree with you there.
That would be my intent and rule I would abide by.
Agree with you.
I see, I also think someone who has had the same base for 1 year who finally gets reported by a player and wiped would feel the same regardless of who took the initial step- a player report or an active mod. Like you said before, if it’s a violation, it’s a violation.
I believe i would have to step away fully from the forums to achieve that in order to the job right. Besides not being allowed to play on official servers not engaging on the forums i would take as a necessary requirement.
I didn’t bring up the issue of moderators playing on the servers at all.
In fact right now, there is a few that DO play on those servers already. So if you don’t want an admin playing on the server they moderate on, you need to find a private server that enforces that. FC doesn’t enforce that on their servers. So unfortunately for this discussion, that concern is mostly irrelevant. You’ve been playing with admins this entire time.
and who have never tried to play at least 4 weeks on a populated pvp server… because it is not hard to figure out by yourself what you need to do on a pvp server simply to avoid to end up naked in desert everyday and also to see that problems of pvp server are very differents from pve server, and not linked to legit base players.