Neither is compared to their building pieces and the general poor optimization of them :slight_smile:

Also, technically you already have this in the game… every crafter you put into a bench typically has some piece of armor on… get a full set of Asura crafters from Sinner’s and you’re technically displaying a full set of armor in every bench with pretty much zero impact on performance in the grand scheme of things…

Soooo… I don’t buy this… it’s just an excuse on their part, while yes it does come at a performance ā€œcostā€, it is almost entirely negligible in comparison to what the base containing the armor stands already hits you with… At least not in a typical usage scenario… If you think of some doomsday scenario of a clan displaying 500 sets of armor densely packed in a box warehouse… then sure that’s a different story…

Holy shіt, I love it when people just flat out accuse the devs of lying, as if they really needed to do so instead of just ignoring the requests :rofl:

1 Like

I haven’t seen any source of an actual dev saying that they’re deliberately not doing this because of performance issues… Now you might have seen mods say it, or community managers say it… neither of which are devs… but people in charge of ā€œmanaging the mobā€ and they DO say things that are occasionally out of context or deliberately vague / inaccurate to reassure people or presenting it as their own educated guess without actually lying.

Does Scott Junior, the executive producer, count? Or is that too much of a managerial position and they really need to drag some dev before the cameras? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

If you don’t believe me, you can read it in Multigun’s recap from April 2020, or you can watch the recording.

It’s not just an excuse, it’s a legitimate concern that Funcom has to keep in mind and modders are free to ignore. Especially since mods can’t run on consoles.

Since i was tagged, give me a freaken break. This topic again. In before the guy who has been working on his armor stands in his mod for 5 years chimes in and people tell him that he’s wrong, again. Cause what does he know? He’s ā€œjust a mod creatorā€ whose been doing this stuff for 5 years and who works on coding for a living. But im sure the people who have never spent 5 seconds of any type of development knows better. (Yes, Im triggered by this topic because you all do the same thing every time its brought up).

Its really not that complicated. Armor uses a Skeleton Mesh, which is more performance heavy then a Static Mesh. Do players tend to span performance heavy placeables to gain an edge, or to trl? Uh, ya they do. The history of Conan Exiles has proven that over, and over, and over, and over.

Its not that it cant be done, but for the bazillionth time, there is legitimate concerns on performance that needs to be considered. I know, its so much easier to just call the dev team lazy, and to arm chair developer, but that is the simple truth.

Muting this thread before i get screamed at.

1 Like

Okay, I watched him saying it… it was like 10 seconds from a 1 hour stream… from 2 years ago… he was clearly caught off-guard, doesn’t care about it whatsoever as he’s happy with the mod version so considers it very low priority despite the community requests and it looked like he pretty much pulled that answer out of his … just to dodge it as much as possible… at least that’s how it seems to me, he was genuinely shocked by the question and wanted out of there as fast as possible…

However even he said that it would only make an impact if people make ā€œtons and tonsā€ of it and also that it’s a request they are constantly evaluating - which means it’s not a ā€œNoā€ but rather a ā€œnot yetā€ as I understand it

I thought you had some technical rundown by the devs as to how much it impacts performance with numbers and as such can’t be justified implementing.

Is there more? or is that the thing that everybody has been quoting ever since?

Also, as much as I appreciate your answers and contribution to stuff in general, I need to point out that I really think this was a bit unnecessary and when you feel compelled to make an entire post that consists of only you illustrating via text how you’re ā€œlaughing at someoneā€ out of the blue like that, then you’re probably better off not wasting the ā€œdigital spaceā€.
On that note though let me add that the devs are human too, they are not above us mere mortals and while they do not NEED to lie, I’m pretty sure he would’ve looked kinda dumb on that video had he ignored the question like you suggested when put on the spotlight, or flat-out say that ā€œwe know it’s one of the most requested feature but we don’t care, we’re ignoring itā€.

1 Like

Let’s start here and make something clear. If the main point you took away from that post is that I’m laughing at you, then that’s on you.

Sure, I could have pointed out that nobody from Funcom – community managers, producers, devs, or anyone else – has a special obligation to address any of the requests from the community, much less to lie about it or come up with excuses, without laughing at the absurdity of it to spare your feelings. But honestly, if those feelings keep getting in the way of reexamining your assumptions and realizing that there’s more to this story than what you believe, then again, that’s on you.

As far as I’m concerned, any time someone on these forums says ā€œI don’t buy this excuseā€, that deserves laughter. The hierarchy of knowledge and expertise here is as follows: people who actually work on this game, then modders, then the rest of us players. ā€œI don’t buy this excuseā€ from that last group is the equivalent of ā€œdo your own research on vaccinesā€, and if that ain’t ā€œwasting the digital spaceā€, I don’t know what is.

With that out of the way:

Of course that’s the way it seems to you, because you’ve already decided what the story is :wink:

We could quibble about his facial expressions and tone and stuff like that, or we could take his word and the words of modders who have actually dug deeper into this (e.g. @Testerle who made the Fashionist mod that adds armor stands) :man_shrugging:

Which happens to be a very valid concern. :man_shrugging:

Yes, which is why I agreed we should keep asking for it. It’s not like I said ā€œforget it, they’ll never do itā€. Instead, I explained why Funcom dev team said they weren’t doing it and what their main concern was. And, as usual, there’s always someone who goes:
will-ferrell-i-dont-believe-you1

This time that someone was you. Next time it’ll be someone else. Occasionally it’s someone who’s capable of saying, ā€œoh, I see, well I hope they find a good solutionā€ :wink:

There’s nothing dumb in not coming up with an excuse, like you claim he did. If he couldn’t remember why, he could have said ā€œyeah, that one pops up every now and then, and we have good reasons why we’re not doing that I can’t go into right nowā€ or something along the lines.

But he didn’t do that. Like I said, we could speculate what really happened, but I see no reason to look for elaborate explanations, when there’s a simple one: there are good technical reasons and valid concerns, and he had to try to find a good way to express those in ways an average player will understand instead of talking about skeletal meshes. :man_shrugging:

EDIT: At this point, you have all the necessary information to reexamine your beliefs and form your own opinions. We are now sliding into bickering, and there’s way too much of that on these forums. Consider this my final reply to you in this thread when it comes to this particular argument.

You don’t have to worry about my feelings, however what I took away from that post to put it bluntly is that you can be a jerk based on your own assumptions… You did not initiate any conversation with me, you don’t even know my stance on this subject, but your first act is to try and ridicule? Why? What purpose does that serve? I’m not offended, I just thought you’re a step above that, I was wrong :slight_smile:

What I said are facts thou… the game DOES already contain several other performance hogs that dwarf this in comparison… The game also DOES show armor all over the place (including crafting stations) without hindering performance in a noticeable way.

Again, what I said is true… and I think what Multigun said is plausible in this sense… someone would have to deliberately spam them to deliberately cause lag in order to gain some PvP advantage, and that might be a concern for not adding yet another tool, however there are already plenty of other things they can do that with.
So whether or not you believe it @CodeMage… this IS an excuse…

Mhm

Yes, tag more people, hey who knows… maybe Testerie will correct Multigun and tell him that skeletal meshes that are not animated have a negligible performance impact compared to static meshes…

Either case, here’s the bottom line. I think you should calm down, take a step back… You don’t even know my angle on this, like I find it ridiculous that you’re the one arguing with me on this, yet you’re the one who WANTS this feature… and I’m the one who’s actually impartial (you just never bothered to ask and assumed). I really don’t care whether we have armor stands or not, I merely made a remark that there are already things in the game that hit performance so I don’t think this very minimal additional hit is where we should be drawing the line… that’s all.

Other than that, I don’t care so I’m not gonna carry on arguing for no reason.
Cheers!

Isn’t this @Xevyr guy the same person who wrote numerous text walls trying to nail some poor soul trying to apologize for something, to the wall relentlessly? I think it’s a lost cause trying to talk sense here - it’s likely not gonna happen.

In any case, It would be nice if some clever fellow figured out a cheap implementation of armor display stands. But if not the game isn’t gonna fall apart or anything. We can live without them until then. Or until everyone is running the equivalent of a multi-GPU 64 core machine with a terabyte of system memory - it shouldn’t be too long now. :slight_smile:

This is you assuming that armor stands would cause a ā€œvery minimal additional hitā€, despite several well-informed people telling you otherwise. If in truth the impact is not very minimal, then adding to the server load would be a mistake.

It’s like saying that ā€œPluto’s effect on our solar systems gravity is negligible, so adding another small planetoid wouldn’t cause any noticeable effectā€.

But if you’re not convinced by what other people tell you, you have the option to conduct empirical tests:

  1. Rent a private server. Pick one with the specs you feel should run the game well enough for you.
  2. Download the Fashionist mod.
  3. Spam armor stands into the game world until you feel there’s a reasonable number of them for as many players as the server should comfortably accommodate. Place armor of your choice on each armor stand.
  4. Check if there’s any impact on server performance.
  5. ???
  6. Profit.
1 Like

Which happens to be a very unvalid concern since they could easily regulate how much displays or armor stands a person can build on a server.

I can reply to that number 4. point right now without any test.
No… since the whole discussion was about client performance, server performance is not affected beyond what any other placeable would affect it, since the whole discussion was about rendering.
So the concern here is that someone would deliberately spam hundreds of these things with the most detailed armor on them to deliberately cause the game client of people passing by their base to lag giving them an advantage over anyone whose computer is worse than theirs essentially.
As for the rest… you’re assuming that I’m assuming…

Mhm… Not going to comment…

If you’re not assuming, that would mean you have data on the subject. In that case I’d like to ask you to present said data. Are you a mod creator or a Funcom employee perhaps?

Yes, because only mod creators and Funcom employees have any idea about programming or IT, there’s no other possibility. Might as well ask Tele above which of these two groups does he belong to :slight_smile:

Either way, I’m done with this topic… I explained everything in a fair way. Bottom line… the world would not end if they introduced armor stands and anyone who’s telling you otherwise is lying… or constructing unrealistic doomsday scenarios in their head… period…
Beyond that thou I have no interest in the subject, I really don’t care if we’ll ever have armor displays or not… I use 1-2 sets of armor typically and dismantle old ones… not much to display, if you care to notice I wasn’t the one who started this topic, I merely joined in the discussion… Now I’m leaving the discussion…
So have a good one

ah yes… the clueless and the incorrigible. i love it… and no, i won’t explain again why it does have an impact. if anyone is interested, they are welcome to look at my profile and find the various topics in which i have described the effects long and wide… back when i still thought logic and reason had a place here…

just a little food for thought:

  • do you think that the game runs so well on all platforms (including consoles!) that you should generate more load without thinking about it?
  • does anyone here really believe that a placeable is completely resource neutral, especially if it is also a skeletal mesh with physics (yes, even the clothes on an armor stand would blow in the wind)?
  • does anyone really believe that someone at funcom will sit down and prepare a few hundred pieces of armour in such a way that a static mesh is created that can then be packed into an armour stand?
  • does anyone really believe that players would limit themselves to a handful of armor stands? or isn’t it much more likely that almost every player on the server will put armor stands in their base with every armor available to them? from experience with my mod, i know that it tends to be the latter.

and no, i’m not saying that it will never happen. but i am saying that you have to think about it carefully and that it is much more complex than it looks at first. there are solutions that cost less server/client resources, but then have a significantly high impact in other areas (e.g. effort, usability, …). if you compare effort, costs and benefits, many potential solutions are completely uninteresting. that’s exactly where funcom is at the moment. it’s just a nice touch, but the potential impact can be devastating.

so and since i already know the course of this discussion from various other discussions of this kind: i’m out. have a nice day!

4 Likes

This topic was automatically closed 7 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.