Only thing slightly dumbed down was FFXIV from FFXI but FFXI WAS THE EPITOME of a challenge god I need a pc to go back to it bad. Hell even had a overtuned boss that it made news people passing out from the fight. Rather than giving up and prioritizing their health they gave it there all. Both a good and bad thing, pandemonium warden is the aforementioned boss if you want to google that article.