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@Jimbo agreed, that’s why on pc the private servers have modding available. But official play is still a HUGE thing for the pvp community but we’re supposed to let the private modded decide how we should play?

Again, the needs and wants of the pvp community as a whole are misrepresented, and outright ignored, in favor of the few people who they do actually listen to.

PS I think you got something on ur nose there, buddy

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Guys, the whole point is different:

first off, @Taemien , I think you’re referring to the old values of Melee and Non-Melee Modifiers which, I think, are no longer valid.

I think the chart I posted is more accurate atm.

And, by looking at the chart, we get to the main point: Cimmerian Berserkers, which were end-game Thralls, are now mid-levels.

They have SLIGHTLY higher modifier to melee, which is no compensation for the HUGE amount of HPs they miss compared to RHTS.

Now, Funcom wants them with stronger melee damage and lower health ?
OK, but then make their Melee Modifier WORTH IT.

As for it, it’s not worth at all.
Would you give up 3000 HP for 0.02% more damage ? I won’t. Not even the dumbest idiot on this board would.

We took Bersekers cause they’re cool. Geez, even the name is cool. They were cool end-game thralls. Now they’re mid-tier !

Funcom needs to be more careful with this adjustments, cause the whole Thrall system feels rushed and WRONG.

Cimmerians start with 30 in VIT, which means they should be the clan with more HPs (or what would be the point of making them start so ?) and instead they are the ones who have less.

Also the whole “hidden modifier” part feels like bul**hit, cause what’s the point of having attributes if Hidden mods determine 90% of the thrall strenght ?

Geez, this system seems so rushed that it’s hard to believe it’s made by the same guys who created Conan Exiles.

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@jimbo and I don’t need a thrall to carry me through every fight but when it’s me and my thrall against 3 other players and their thralls then yes I am happy my thrall is there to help out and hopefully I don’t have to carry it

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I’ve been working on getting FC to rectify this for about two years now. All I know is yes, they want to do this. But it takes time to do it. Time that isn’t spent dealing with other issues that are more important.

Right now thralls work, work well if you use Authority, act as extra damage only if you don’t have it. And that’s how they are intended. Its how many of us like it. Mods exists for those who want them to be stronger.

They want player characters to be the focus and that is the game they want to make. They’ve made this clear.

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Players have always been the focus, still are. Players have a very advantageous existence compared to the thralls. The thralls should be able stand alone against a player or why even have them? Thralls are what make it possible for the smaller tribes and even solos to defend against the maxed out tribes. Or should we all just quit and move on coz this game only works for the guys who play in big tribes? If I have a base and I have say even just 20 leveled thralls in it I should be able to defend against 10 players and their 10 thralls trying to raid me. It’s just realistic common sense, even the math works. Or why even bother playing if I’m just to be temporary fodder that only lasts long enough to hopefully buy a few DLC’s ? I have the numbers and home court adavantage yet the raiders pretty much get the win handed to them? It’s stupid. FC needs to stop to you seriously. No wonder this game is going to poop

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Just to interject from my recent experiences with my thralls lately. I finished leveling my Snowhunter and of course her last perk was crap. She doesnt seem to hit that hard anymore. Same with my berzerkers.

Just out of sheer boredom I grabbed an RHTS that was bartending at my pub and was a level 1 and tossed Dalinisias armor and weapons on her. The resuls were amazing. She hits like a freight train and with my new spec of full auth and full vitality, she almost never goes below 25% health.

I ran her thru the Den at level 5 and she basically tore it up. Ran her up against the three skull croc at level 8 and she soloed it and only lost 25% health. Took her thru UC at level 10 and she rocked it.

Personally I think you can toss all of the old modfier tables out the window.

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@JJDancer i don’t know that thralls have ever had a problem with PvE fighting, until post 3.0 where you now have to spec yourself to make them viable.

For PVP though where you have to go up against crafty devious players you really can’t afford to run an authority build nor you can afford to have a thrall that depends on you to make it strong. 2 very different worlds.

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So your basically saying that the PVP killas need OP thralls to win? Just FYI I played PVP in EA and we did not even have followers then. Sorry if I do not shed a tear for the PVP crowd.

And as a direct reply to the OP, the Berserkers new health is about on par with most of the other named fighters. I havent leveled any up since 3.0, but have half a dozen existing level 20s, and they all are around 4-5k. So is my Snowhunter, so are my other named. My highest level health wise is a tier 3 porter with 11k.

And to counter YOUR statement that they are still the hardest hitters in the game, I disagree. Based on my testing out various thralls using the exact same weapons and armor, the hardest hitting thrall i have is an RHTS archer, yes. . . archer. (Using melee mode with a great axe of the north )

PS - I play PVE-C not PVE

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Static defense (your home field advantage) has always been and always will be the graveyard of armies, and thus empires. You’ll need to find other ways of dealing with larger clans. And you always have. Prior to 3.0 you probably were fine because there wasn’t enough people on a server for you to be raided. Now you do. This would have been a problem in 2.8, 2.0, or even 1.0 with that many people.

Talk, reason, capitulate, compromise, or use cunning for larger forces. Sometimes you need to swallow your pride and accept the consequences of being small. That is what PVP is, what its always been, and what it will always be.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
You are the first person here that actually got the whole point of this Thread.

Cimmerian Berskers (and Dalinsia - which is roughtly the same) have been nerfed so much that they became MID-tier. They don’t even hit that hard anymore (as you noticed RHTS do more damage).

And the fact itself that an ARCHER deal more melee damage than a Fighter means that the guys that made this system have been under drugs. There is no other explanation. They’re either idiots (and I don’t think it’s the case) or they’ve been under strong drugs when they made that system.

@Taemien I’m not saying that actual thrall system doesn’t work. I said it’s WRONG.
Attributes are just a huge pile of crap cause hidden modifiers determine 90% of the thrall strenght.

And I’m not even talking how wrong their Perk System is.
I could make a better system in 2 minutes, and I’m just a common idiot who play this game.

I understand they have to consider Balance, but they just made the worst system possible.

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By all means use the devkit. I did, when they demolished Archery during the last patch of early access several years ago. It actually yielded results. I hope you do too if you go that route. I hate the hidden modifiers.

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Thankyou,

Blockquote One of the examples I used to illustrate the issue I was looking to fix prior to 3.0 was comparing a Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker Archer to Freya. IF the RHTSA had 0 Accuracy, Freya would need 61 Accuracy to exceed the RHTSA damage by ONE point of damage using the exact same gear. Without having access to the wiki, admin commands, or the devkit, one would not have that knowledge.

Blockquote
This isn’t as bad as it was prior to 3.0 since the modifiers were generally reduced, but they still play a major role. So hopefully they do put in the work needed to bring this stuff to light.

Everything I thought I knew was a lie.

So many inconsistencies… this makes so much sense now!!!

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Oh God… what a mess :stuck_out_tongue:
Sooo first of all

You do realize they could just do what their names already imply right? :smiley: Multiply it… and display it that way… Basically not counting armor mitigation / penetration since those rely on the targets armor… the game knows how much damage your thrall would do with the weapon you gave him… They could put that number on the interface… like… “Raw Damage: X” all multiplied and based on the weapon etc

In this particular case I think neither should you… or anyone for that matter. I mean… OP was having trouble beating the event boss… How did this yet again turn into a pvp discussion? :smiley:

Well, that’s close enough, my RHTS with god tier stats (hallowed and whatnot) has 6k, the other not so great stat RHTS got around 4-5k just like your berserker… that’s pretty decent!

The reason you’re upset in that vitality points count less HP than for a different type of thrall is a non-issue, since like @Taemien pointed out above there’s other hidden stuff behind the scene… a RHTS will never have 76 vitality for example… so while the individual points may count a bit more for them, they simply won’t get as many of them and end up around the same health

Now I wonder as a side-note… did this happen to be a zerker you placed before the update? since those all got bugged missing Grit so 0 Grit without the possibility to gain any thus 0 armor contribution from stats. JJ there had the same issue with their followers so they leveled a new one.

As a bottom line though, I agree with @Taemien thralls simply had way too much HP and they were way too OP compared to the players, in fact imo they still are… And @WhiteRabbit I am not judging them from a PvP perspective… since I can’t… they’re NPCs… they’re part of the PvE realm… you can literally stand on a rock and just kill them without getting hit so their HP is irrelevant in that regard. I wouldn’t mind seeing them get smarter though, but I still don’t consider them a PvP thing… I might take some expendable one as a distraction, I wouldn’t expect anything from it thou just to bother people for a bit.

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I cannot agree with this statement, even though at first I did. Once you find the sweet spot with the Attributes, you will love it.
I had to play around with them a lot, but now I feel as if the game is so much better. I finally hit on a full Vitality, full Authority mode, and myself and my follower are tearing it up.
We just did New Asagarth and cleared it in five minutes. My follower, the RHTS archer, level 13 just will not die, and with my health over 800 plus the healing procs, I feel a lot more confident taking on an NPC blitz.

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Why you stick to Berserkers like they are the only ones you got?
You said RHTS are good so build an army with those.

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I use beserkers all the time and don’t struggle at all. If you invest in the authority tree they do just as well as before. I can take out the entirety of unnamed city and my thralls hp never even drops below half. No offence but it sounds like you might be doing something wrong.

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Get 3 of them and turn them into invisible zombies with 8-12k health.

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As a player I deal ~300 damage with every hit and have around 700 hp. I think that trading thrall hp so we can get this buf for our characters was a good deal.

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@Taemien I can’t use it: my PC has “only” 16 GB Ram and whenever I tried to use DevKit my PC freezed.
Also I play Official PVE, so no point creating mods for me.

@Xevyr excuse me, you were saying… ?

4k HPs is pretty decent for hunting deers, maybe … try facing the ritual boss on the bridge of betrayer with that.

And I’m not even considering the Wine Cellar, which should be illegal. The guy who made such bosses should be fired and arrested.

You know what the problem REALLY is ? Healing Arrows …
Those sh*t are the cause of continous nerf of Thralls.

And the Devs, instead of nerfing THOSE arrows, keep nerfing Thralls … which is TOTAL NON-SENSE. Nerf the fu**ing arrows, for f*ck’s sake !

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Your image literally contains what I was talking about… see your thrall with 0 Grit there? he’s broken :slight_smile:

Also the perks are even better on this so yes with stupid RNG you can get a lot of vitality, it’s definitely not the norm though to get multiple +15 perks on the same thrall :stuck_out_tongue: even with the new potion

They heal 100 hp… over 10 seconds… they haven’t been strong for ages…

The real cause of all the thrall nerfs are that the developers agree with the notion that thralls aren’t supposed to play your game, you are supposed to play it :stuck_out_tongue:

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