Clarification on the locations to build

No proof there! None to the point!

We’re not talking about me now are we?

And yes, I get offended when you pit your opinion over a forum official who has been here nearly every day since Feb 1st, 2018 and has read the majority of posts and all FC official replies. I think both you and @CodeMage are completely wrong to stick them in the same category as you and I - and I think that alone is actually rude all on it’s own - rude as hell! It’s actually stupid IMHO too.

Not even close!


Sigh, why did I even bother to think you might actually take the advice to stop? :face_vomiting:
FFSSTHU!

Because they happen to play the game? Do they have to have two different forum accounts because people jump to conclusions?

I’m lumping forum moderators – in general – together with other players – in general – when it comes to their authority on how Funcom works internally.

In fact, what I’m saying is really, really, really simple:

  • Unless you work for Funcom, you can’t have an authoritative answer to the OP’s question.
  • Volunteer forum moderators don’t work for Funcom.
  • Even if a specific moderator – or any other forum user who doesn’t work for Funcom – knows the correct answer, they’re still not empowered to speak on Funcom’s behalf.

I wouldn’t think that “volunteer forum mods don’t speak on Funcom’s behalf, therefore you shouldn’t use their posts to argue that Funcom staff are not on the same page” is either rude, or stupid, or controversial.

@Cattibria, if what I’ve said so far was rude or bothered you in any way, I sincerely apologize. At no point did I intend it as anything negative towards you, and if it turned out so, I apologize and I’ll try to avoid it in the future.

1 Like

4 Likes

TBH seeing the way these forums are moderated and essentially hand waving of issues has made me rethink supporting the game going forward. Before I was angry and put off but now seeing how people that Funcom have given a modicum of “power” demean, belittle and obfuscate on going issues what is the point?

If 3.0 drops and there are balance issues or enforcement issues we will be told to submit tickets and they will be absolutely addressed. Weeks later we can look forward to those being closed and told that the investigation is concluded, nothing found and no they wont’ share the details.

Having checked a lot of these “there isn’t a problem” posters posting history I have seen that they are NOT PvP players therefore have no understanding about anything we are taking issue with. Code Mage cops to being PvE C which is close but still so far away from the stress of what a base represents on map. We are not being understood and dismissed because they DON’T and can’t understand.

If we can’t be heard on the forum the best is to hold onto our money and see if the pressure there mounts. I think what a lot of the forum mods and regulars don’t understand are as well as upset players are also customers and potential further consumers. They can say that is we go nobody will miss us but I can assure you the accountants and Funcom will especially in numbers.

1 Like

it’s hard to hurt their pockets.
we already bought the game, the community is small and very few new players join the game.
And the worst issue is that the game is GOOD. they have a great product in hands, but the intermediaries that deal with the community leave something to be desired.

To be honest I’m losing all desire to play this game. Unfortunately I’m only 1 player.
I imagine that not even my clan and our allies (which are around 80 people) won’t stop playing.

And as you said. we don’t have anywhere to be heard if we can’t post things here.
Zendesk doesn’t answer anything.

Look at this. it came to me today. a friend of a friend sent me because he knew I would come to the forum.

image

their answer:

image

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this like when you are yong and you want to go out and ask your mother, then she tells you to ask your father and he in turn tells you to ask your mother. The mother-father paradox.

2 Likes

His interpretation of the rules means the same as yours or mine. He has no ability to ban players from servers, just like you or I.

Its not insulting to say that.

No. Not when people are yelling and screaming at me because I point something out.

Further fueling my original point. His interpretation carries the same weight as everyone else in the forums.

See, we agree. Just add my point and I dont see why were having this discussion.

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about with the language issue, and it is a REAL issue and everyone seems to be hand waving it away. I might be wrong but as far as I know the only build rules that are listed are on this forum and they are in ENGLISH! Sure people can translate the page but that is going to lose nuance. Maybe as a community we might have to solve that ourselves and get some bilingual players to translate and parse anything that is lost there as it is pretty vague as stands.

Certainly going forward it might be something we have to do.

This is a bit upsetting. Can’t get answers in the forum but even the classic zendesk gives the same generic response.

2 Likes

Thank you for pointing out precisely what Ive been saying, their opinions are equal to everyone elses. As is their interpretation of the rules.

a bit upsetting? this is extremely upsetting. It gets hilarious.

and yet there are people blindly defending this behavior or are they trolls (which there is a lot on the internet) or undercover funcom employees (conspiracy theory, just the way the codemage likes it :))

How. His yhread had views and replys. So if there @ 1300 views and 130 reply’s that is 1170/1300. now out of the 130 replies, guessing half, 65 is saying it is not an issue. So 1170+65=1235. So 1235/1300 either couod careless to reply or think it is not a major issue. So roughly 95% arent worried about the “meta reporting” as much as the 5% chirping on the forums that it is evil corporate rules.

Exactly what people with a “modicum of power” have been doing that? I’ve never seen either a Funcom staff member or a forum moderator do any of that. Those are the only two groups of people who have any more power than you or me here. At most, they close some threads – which I’ll talk about further below – but I’ve never ever seen them demean, belittle, or obfuscate anything here.

If you’re under the impression that the little sign that says “Regular” next to my name means I have some kind of “power” here, you’re mistaken. I don’t get access to any special knobs and switches, no extra buttons or links. To get the “Regular” title, you just have to reach the trust level 3 once, and then you can have the forums put that next to your name. You can fall down to trust level 2 or lower the very next day, but the title stays. And like I said, I never noticed anything especially different. If I’m supposed to have some kind of “powers”, I didn’t get the memo :stuck_out_tongue:

Give me a little credit here. I might have many bad qualities, but I’m not actually dumb. I understand that there’s a big difference between PVE(-C) and PVP when it comes to base building. You guys build your bases in certain ways because you’re trying to defend yourselves from raids.

And I’ve never, ever denied that. Nor have I ever said that you don’t have the right to disagree with the rules. If you think the rules are not a good fit for PVP because you can’t play PVP without breaking them, who am I to say that’s false? I don’t play PVP. Other PVP players might agree or disagree with you, but that’s none of my business. So you’re free to disagree with the rules, too.

You know why I jump into these discussions? It’s because people invariably say things like this:

  • Funcom admins don’t check the reports, they just ban people.
    • That’s false, and it’s been proven false. Repeatedly.
  • We need building limits.
    • No, we don’t. I’m not even gonna go into details of why not, I’ve said it often enough.
  • We need additional no-build zones.
    • No, we don’t, not until 3.0 lands and allows people who don’t play on official servers to disable no-build zones.
  • We don’t need any rules. They should stop enforcing the rules.
    • Oh yes we do. Things we much worse before the rules. If you haven’t played back then, or don’t remember what it was like, or were lucky enough not to have any problems, that’s your thing. The server moderation was introduced because a lot of people kept pestering Funcom for a long time. More people than the “Ban Is The New Meta” brigade, and for a longer time.
  • Cheaters don’t get punished often enough or fast enough, so other rules shouldn’t be applied either.
    • That’s just stupid. Seriously. If there’s a spate of breaking-and-entering in your neighborhood, you don’t go saying that we should get rid of the speed limits. You ask for the bad thing to get better, not for a different thing to get worse.
  • I didn’t break any rules.
    • The overwhelming majority of people who have said that turned out to have broken rules, but didn’t know they did.

Oh, and by the way, I’m not a “there isn’t a problem” poster, since you lumped me in there. I haven’t been a “there isn’t a problem” poster ever since @Palm523 shared some actual evidence that there is a problem. I just disagree with most of you about what the problem is – and let’s face it, it’s hard to agree with some of the stuff people come up with here, like the tinfoil hattery about how Funcom is trying to get rid of official servers. The way I see it, the problem is that the rules are not accessible enough, the clarifications of those rules are not discoverable enough, there are still a few open questions, and the feedback from individual Zendesk cases is woefully insufficient.

I also happen to be doubtful about how widespread the problem is. People keep saying how this is killing the game and how it’s about to explode in Funcom’s face and whatnot, but it’s way too easy to make a lot of noise and make it seem like the end of the world.

Does that mean I’m saying the problem doesn’t deserve to be solved? No, of course it should be solved. But when the same bunch of people keeps behaving unreasonably all the time, believing that doubling down on what they’re wrong about and yelling harder will magically make them right, it’s perfectly normal to start doubting their claims about the scope of the problem.

And now we come to the closing of the threads. That’s the primary reason driving this whole “we can’t be heard” trope, because mods and community managers keep closing threads.

Yeah, you can be heard. But you should also be prepared to be reasonable and civil. Plenty of these discussions have been left open for a long, long time and only got closed when they became so freaking ridiculous and toxic that no sane moderator would leave them open.

I mean, seriously, do you really think a thread will stay open when it devolves into people accusing Funcom admins of banning people for fun and out of malice and because they have problems in their personal lives? When there are people taking advantage of a modder’s decision to stop supporting a mod to make a point about how the game is dying? When there are people resorting to insults and name-calling because they don’t like the discussion? That’s your idea of “being heard”?

We all have a right to be heard, but I don’t see why anyone should be entitled to be persistently toxic.

Your statement is not true. or maybe it’s half true*. because I HAVE a proof that someone got banned by hacking without hacking hahahaah. no jokes here. it’s really sad.
*maybe they investigate some, while others they don’t.

This is my case. at first i didn’t understand why i did get banned.
But after i realised the reason, i was angrier than before.

There are so many things in your post that are none of my points that seem to be attributed to me as to not bother quoting I will just say it plainly.

I do not support accusations of mods closing threads due to personal issues, nor do I support name calling or similar.

Do not attribute that behaviour to me.

Those threads should NOT have been closed but pruned where such posts existed.

Also everything you said about PVP play beyond your statement that you don’t engage in it should be ignored. Its why I don’t comment on PVE builds other than thinking to myself, that looks neat I wish I could build like that. My contribution is irrelevant and ignorant so I keep it to myself.

I am entirely onboard with civility and being reasonable.

What constitutes as somebody being “toxic” is a subject assessment and I won’t engage with that.

It has been proven that they don’t all in cases investigate, it has also been proven that is some they are.

With no metrics or them actually sending the details of the investigation in the email working out what is what there is impossible.

Code Mage is correct and you are correct.

Where the actual numbers lay … hard to say. And for every unfair, un-investigated banning/wipe there is a or a group of aggrieved and upset players.

Up to 10 a pop.

2 Likes

i said it on another topic.
I know around 800 accounts affected by the ban waves.
clan mates, allies, enemies… every war on pvp servers now starts with a report.
Of course not all of these bans were unfair.
Some were totally unfair
others totally deserved
some was because of the greys areas of TOS (like mine)

See, this is a problem. Where the hell are people supposed to get help with this stuff? Forums are not going to answer your friend’s question. And it turns out Zendesk doesn’t get you an answer, either.

Let me get this straight: the fact that someone who allegedly did not use any hacks got banned for hacking somehow proves that Funcom admins don’t even investigate reports? They just saw the report he was hacking and banned him without investigation, that’s your conclusion?

So if it’s that easy to ban people for hacking, then your friend who got wiped shouldn’t have had any problems getting perpetrators banned, right? :wink:

All sass aside, it’s not really complicated: people who say “Funcom admins just ban without investigating” are making a sweeping generalization that has been proven false. They do investigate all the cases. Whether they sometimes make a mistake or not is another thing, and it’s not so freaking hard to say that instead of saying “they ban without investigating”.

It’s not just your case, it’s most of the people who come here to complain. That’s also a big problem, one Funcom should work on.

They’re not attributed to you. They’re attributed to the people who got those threads closed, people who you implicitly defend by blaming mods for closing the threads instead of blaming those people for their toxicity.

That has been tried before. Guess how that worked out? The people whose posts got deleted came back to spam the thread about “censorship”. Then when the thread got closed, they opened new threads complaining about “censorship” and even “tyranny”.

You’re free to ignore anything I’ve ever said about anything. When I dare share my opinion about PVP, I always make sure it’s understood that I’m not even trying to speak authoritatively because I don’t play PVP. So I’m not misleading anyone that, and everyone who reads it is free to decide whether they want to ignore it. But hey, good thing we all deserve to be heard, right? :wink:

You’re welcome to post about any aspect of PVE you want. Just because you don’t play on PVE servers, it doesn’t mean you can’t contribute to the discussion. It’s not automatically irrelevant, and if there’s information you’re missing, others can fill it in. Hopefully without being rude or dismissive :wink:

I don’t care what word you use to describe the behavior we’re talking about. Here’s what matters: you don’t want that behavior attributed to you, and you say posts resulting from such behavior should be pruned.

You quoted me and only me throughout your post, in a reply… to me. Of course I was going to come to conclusion as will many others.

As to ignoring you completely, I don’t suggest anybody ignore anybody completely (sans abuse of course). But in the areas of PvP meta and build issues ANYBODY that doesn’t play PvP should be ingored as they have no frame or reference. Our builds are entirely different yes, as are our strats which is why the meta locations do exisit.

I am able to post about PvE, if it is welcome will depend on the post. I disagree entirely on the relevance of my posting in such a discussion and I will save my breath for cooling my porridge. I don’t feel the need to bloviate on every post on the forum.

Yes I do suggest personal attacks should be pruned and not dump the entire thread. Which is why new ones are created because we can’t gather experiences from other players, new experiences currently occurring on servers or get any idea of the depth of the problem if the threads get shut down. I support mods in that abusive posts should be removed.

this is a logical conclusion.
how the hell an admin is going to ban someone just because he was laggy?

This plus the fact that they don’t give us any information about this “investigation” lead us to think that they don’t investigate at all.

Can i be wrong? of course.

but anyway, I’d like to see these proofs. Do you have any posts, links or whatever so I can take a look?
I would like to draw my conclusions too and maybe change my opinion and even that of the people I know.