*CROM!* desperately needs an overhaul!

I agree that Crom - or how barbarians believe in their own strenght seems to have zero impact.
Though I have no clue about the lore of Conan to begin with.

I think such a fury would be hard to reason in favor of, since there are no real “skills” in the game yet.
Having to craft a token seems a lil weird to me so I would rather go for a passive which may kick in after certain requirements are met (i.e. <10% HP, literally on the brink of death) and last for 15 seconds or such and after that applying a few stacks of bleed to the raging player which is likely to kill the player even IF he actually managed to kill any opponent who pushed him to the brink of death.

But as I already said, this would be hard to reason in favor of - if not impossible.
Also each and every toon would be required to be believers in Crom too, as Funcom has a clear stance when it comes to advantages or buffs due to the players choices in the character creation.
They highly dislike the idea. At least this is what got stuck in my mind.

I like the idea of a forge and would like to ask for some rugs made from hide only, as an equivalent to the fiber “armor” with same stats and handcrafted (learned beneath that forge though), but cold resistance and savage looks - maybe even rugs.
Because I dont know how everyone else feels about them, but to me Crom is believed in by barbarians and I always linked these with fury and rugs.

As for Crom themed decorations… I am not too sure about that. Crom isnt a style sold at Ikea.
For racial DLCs it makes sense to have decorations, but Crom?
Other gods have priests attend to their altars, but Crom doesnt care.
While the “people” who believe in set, mitra or else gods may carve or build lil decorations which remind them about their loyalty to their god, the same will not apply to the believers of Crom.


I would rather see decorations again at DLCs.
To me, the DLCs offer the following:
Khitan:
Great walls as they have the same look on both sides, and I love the roof pieces.
Medium armor is great for strenght and not requiring a certain t4 armorer for flawless.
Heavy armor the same way, but also coming with cold resistance.
Nice seatings and carpets.
I like the lightsources.

Aquilonian:
Astonishing marble, I highly prefer their ramps to be used as roofs.
Their statues look awesome!
Handy and cheap light sources.
Awesome chairs.
I love the harp.

Pictish:
Pillars, ceilings, stairs and fences.

Yamatai:
The Roofs and stairs are awesome!
I think the medium armor was about encumbrance? So that one is useful too.

And having talked about armors. I love the looks of all of them - well, maybe not so much the light pict, but…
Thing is, with attributes attached to armor, the armorusage completely depends on those…
If not counting dancers.
As I recently started using Pippi, the armor at least get used for thespians…

So true. One of my favorite lines in Batman vs Superman is when Lex Luthor says “God is tribal, God takes sides! If God is all-powerful He can not be good, if God is good, He can not be all-powerful!”.

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It just shows that Lex Luther isn’t a philosopher. He assumes that what God can and will do at any given time for any given circumstance. Arrogance at best; hubris at worst. Its a rather revealing statement about the Lex Luther character than most people realize.

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How so?

Lex is just rehashing the ancient impotent or evil argument, nothing wrong with that. As far as I can tell, the basic logic is sound and the only possible answer is variations of ‘mysterious ways’. Which is no answer at all in my view. Who are we mere mortals to assume that god’s actions (or lack thereof) make sense to us, right? Well, if we can’t understand it…

I have no problem with people saying maybe there’s a god or conceptualising reality in theoretical ways. Life is very mysterious, consciousness in particular. I’m not even a materialist! What I do have a problem with is religion trying to say well no, it’s not so mysterious, we actually know. Talk about hubris. Religion needs to accept its place as a subordinate branch of philosophy.

Of course, if there’s a response to the problem of evil that you think really nails it, I’d love to read it.

Ironically me and my bar friends have talked about good and evil A question was asked if there is such a thing as absolute evil or absolute good. I fell that there can’t be, because both are really human constructs to set moral compasses by. In nature, there is no evil or good. There is a food chain, and that food chain will exist as long as every level executes its part. I am not an atheist either. I like to let people believe what they need to get thru life. But the lex luthor line really made so much logical sense, it has stuck with me. And to some that have suffered abuse (as implied in BvS Lex was) they sometimes question faith from this perspective.

Tying this back to Crom for the OP, Crom also does not believe in evil and good, or care really. It just is. You exist to do what you can with the tools given. How far you go in Conan’s world is up to you, and you alone. Crom is about self sufficiency. Not good. not Evil. Not controlling. Just breathed you life. that’s it. But there still would be people who bastardize his religion. Make emblems. Make false temples to him. It is human nature. Exploit something for personal gain. And Crom would smile upon them for doing that :slight_smile: So having these in game would not be far fetched.

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As a fictional concept, Crom is brilliant and there’s some profound truth in there. What you say is persuasive, there is probably some wiggle room for some Crom religious stuff in the game apart from the whole avatar and priests thing. I’m barely familiar with Conan lore, so can’t really contribute much to the discussion about the OPs suggestion. Seems like something would be doable if handled with care.

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Exactly!!
You and Robarbarian are now peering directly into my headspace on this issue. Im just not always very good at conveying what I mean or the intended meaning. The self-sufficiency Crom gives is a key concept. Part of that is how we as free willed individuals would worship him. Because his religion has no priests or upper level religious heirachy, there are no established right or wrong ways governing how he should be worshipped. Again, self determination. This is why I am not arguing that my ideas are the best fit, just that there should be something. Mine may orverlap with the somewhat ‘bastardised’ version you noted. But again, it is neither right or wrong. Just hypothetically, for me personally, if I was a Crom worshipper who arrived in the exiled lands, I would forge my first sword in a manner which bespeaks Croms greatness and might. I would then carry it proudly into battle and use it to strike strive and slay any exiles who dared attack you. Then upon victory raise it high!

Well said Robarbarian. I have spent many hours reflecting on the ways and wisdom of Crom, and there is much profound truth in there. Handled with care would be essential. I like and completely agree with both posts.

Personally wouldn’t mind seeing some decorations based off him. But thats all. Fun.com wants to keep the game lore centric and that means Crom does nothing for you at all.

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Crom’s altar is the world, everyone (and no-one) is his priest, and his worship is simply to live, laugh, to slay and to love.

Which, apart from the slaying bit, sounds like a slogan for middle-aged women to put on their walls and call it home decor, but in all fairness it IS a fairly significant difference, heh.

I’ve debated this topic ad nauseam before, so I’ll say no more.

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Crom reads this thread, and laughs.

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Now Crom ignores your requests, he gave you life, make something of it or don’t, Crom does not care for human issues

Crom laughs at at a lot of things nowadays doesnt he, including this non R.E.H statement. But he does approve of us as a community having the guts to discuss the hard questions rather than avoiding them.

No offence intended; I value all people input.

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ADDRESSING CROM IN LORE
Hi Son of Thak. I knew a matter regarding the lore and how closely this sticks to it would soon arise, so let us deliberate on it by all means, as it is important to address and consider it after all. For the record, I am not an expert on Conan lore, and any are encouraged to correct me if errors are made. Now, I really need to establish/address one or two contexts for your statements.

The first is are arguing that Conan Exiles sticks closely to original Robert E Howard lore, which in numerous ways it simply doesnt. Rather they have utilised bits and pieces from various other sources which have made contributions to the Conan universe over time. For example, the Yamatai DLC: Yamatai comes the Savage Sword of Conan comics, not R.E.H lore. The riddle/secret of steel reference comes from the movie and animated series; never in R.E.H works. Being able to worship both Mitra and Set!?! Even the new Conan Unconquered depicts Conan marching with Mitras support. Im sure there are many others which I have missed too. Funcom has always, including in Age of Conan, used and incorporated material from the whole universe, not just the R.E.H original material. *please note that I am NOT criticising Funcom for this. In fact I believe they are doing an outstanding job! I love the game, and we should use all material for the sake of a more rich and diverse playing experience.

The second aspect of the context I would question is are you arguing that the game sticks closely to the lore of the combined universe as a whole? Because if so, this only strengthens my argument, that there is enough wiggle room for Crom to take on a larger role, while remaining consistent with the lore. Some examples:

-In ‘the Return of Conan’: Crom directly intervenes to save Conan from a unworthy death at the hands of a sorcerer. Conan later makes a sacrifice to honour Crom.
-In ‘Conan the Valorous’: Either Crom or a statue dedicated to him are located in a cave, where he is worshipped by his followers, and watches over the burial mounds.
-In ‘Conan the barbarian’ his fathers sword was forged as a tribute to Crom. The runes on Conan’s father’s sword are translated as; "Suffer no guilt, ye who wield this in the name of Crom."
One could also make a tentative argument that he helped Conan prevail at the Battle of the Mounds.
-In marvel publications: such as ‘Savage sword of Conan’, Crom has a larger role, at times even manifests physically. He personally tells Conan not to die, hurls lightning at unsavoury characters, and unleashes an army of the dead using ‘Croms Wrath’(this sounds awesome). There are too may incidents to list, but a compilation can be found: at www.marvunapp.com

So this means that if we are using source material from the whole Conan universe, a greater role for Crom IS actually lore freindly. (*Son of Thak please dont think I am either attacking or singling you out here ok, as I am certainly not; I am making a broader observation) Here is the punch line: could someone please explain to me how can we justify using some material outsde R.E.H such as Yamatai, but not others such as building Crom weapons or ornamentals!? It creates a double standard, implying that it can be used for some things but not others. Its like ‘the chewbacca defence’, it just doesnt make sense. The bottom line is that further fleshing out Crom, done carefully and with the utmost respect IS both possible and friendly to the lore!

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Well in that case so long as there is source material i am all for Crom getting an update.

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Thank you faithful, your words and arguments are solid, and you might not be an expert in conan lore (neither am I) but you show a passion and apprectiation for Howards that I also appreciate. To whoever plays this game beeing, how to say it, an outsider?, would say “ok, all gods have something but this Crom doesn’t?”, and this wouldn’t make any sense gamewise. If you think of Crom for pure game mechanics, it leaves him just as a reference to the game’s name, nothing more. It would be fair to at least have something from him in the game. I honestly don’t know how important Crom was to Conan, and to the whole Conan’s lore, but if all gods present in game (I believe there are many more in the lore which are not in game) have certain… properties, then so be it for all. Your arguments are right to have him in the game with a reason, moreso considering he does sometimes listen as you referenced (again I’m no expert) and actually intervenes actively. Thanks again, I really liked tour post, well written Sir.

Other thing is, whether Funcom is willing to go that way.

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Yes there are a large number of gods in Conan’s world. (Supposably Data mining found Bel god of theives set up some time ago.) I’ve been asking for a few of them to make an appearance some of them are even referenced in game! Xath god of spiders for example!

Funcom has done a very good job of capturing the feel of the original stories; the themes of corrupt religions with meddling gods, crumbling empires, resurgent and morally cleansing barbarism, etc.

The addition of Yamatai doesn’t go against this theme; its just an inference of a larger world that conforms to Howards world building style. Changing Crom from a distant and uncaring god into a meddling being, however, would go against the theme.

I realize that CE draws from multiple sources, with differing interprertations, but id err on the side of the primary source when it comes to worldbuilding.

Thankyou for your kind and articulate reply Miodeleo. And also thankyou, for your support on this important issue. You are right that I do have a passion for Conan, and also Crom. I feel that I am attracting much scorn in raising this topic, but I also believe that it is a discussion which we as mature and sophisticated adults should be having. It is possible that I was too quick to suggest implementable changes, instead of first trying to first put foward a more comprehensive argument as to why the change is not only warranted, but actually compatible with the lore itself. As I stated in a previous post, I do at times struggle to convey what I am trying to tell people. My desire to see him fleshed out isnt derived from a ‘me wantee’ mindset, it is because it genuinely pains me to see the Conan universes most important deity less represented than any of the other Gods. Sadly, you are certainly right about Crom being just a reference in the game at this point, and anyone who chooses him at the start is automatically disadvantaged, as they have access to fewer resources, and are locked out of a number of Journey Steps. I know the decision to select Crom was mine alone, I have no regrets, and I was happy to do so because of my passion for Crom. However, in context this could not possibly be considered a level playing field, unless one later changes their allegiance. As you stated I am not sure exactly how important Crom was to Conan on a personal level, but it is glaringly obvious based on the numerous interactions that Conan is important in the eyes of Crom. No thankyou my friend, it is always a pleasure to discuss Conan with open minded individuals.

As far as Funcom goes on this issue, only time (and perhaps persuasion) will tell…

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My thoughts precisely Krieg, I see no reason why Crom shouldnt be at least somewhat further fleshed out if there is source material to to support it, which there certainly is. Thankyou for your contribution and your support.

“Crom gives a man courage, free will and the strength to slay his enemies at birth. It’s useless to call upon him, as Crom is a gloomy and savage god who despises weaklings.”

Maybe an easier thing would to get extra/bonus experience. Those who know Crom know that only by becoming strong by their own hand, will they find any sort of favour!

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