*CROM!* desperately needs an overhaul!

I like Marvels take on Crom the best.

Crom was a Tuatha de Danaan
He was a god of storms, death, and eternity.
His sons were storm gods as well.

Pre-Cataclysmic Age
Over 21,000 years ago, the new god Crom led a shaman to three iron-bound books of magic, which the shaman used to imprison Shuma-Gorath in what would become Mount Crom in Cimmeria.

Age of Acheron

Crom became a god worshiped by the Cimmerians. He was invoked at least by 13,000 BC, by King Bafomai, just before the Fall of Acheron.
His subordinates included, Father Lir, and Mannanan.

Hyborian Age of Conan

In the town once known as Red Tree Hill, some of the townsfolk came to worship the Cimmerian god Crom when an inquisitor tried to execute captive Conan, after having slain a priest of Mitra, and was struck by lightning after Conan shouted “Crom damn you!” to his face.

Anyone that perceives REH as some kind of literary genius, and thinks he should be venerated on some kind of pedestal, and his works are “Canon”, has no clue about his life.
He was borderline anti-social, and most likely had an Oedipus complex, considering he worshiped his mother and committed suicide because she was on her deathbed.

His literary style was like throwing darts at a dart board and he had many more rejections then published stories.
He actually recycled his first Conan story from an older Kull unpublished story and added the land of Hyboria. This was during the height of the depression and most people were desperate to make a living in any way possible.
In 1966, de Camp made a deal with Lancer Books to republish the Conan series, which led to the “First Howard Boom” of the 1970s. Their popularity was enhanced by the cover artwork of Frank Frazetta on most of the volumes.
Many of his works were reprinted (some printed for the first time) and they expanded into other media such as comic books and films. The Conan stories were increasingly edited by de Camp and the series was extended by pastiches until they replaced the original stories.

So who is to say what is actually purist “lore” and what is not. And even if we deviate from that path a bit, I seriously doubt that REH is rolling over in his grave about it.

( Sorry for the short novel )

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Convinced. Chalk me up, @Croms_Faithful.

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Well look at you @JJDancer, you may be late to the party but by god did you make a grand entrance. You know what, I could not agree more. Not only do you get it, but you have done something, perhaps unwittingly, but immensely helpful for me this day. You have given me 3 new, previously unearthed lore sources surrounding Crom to work with!

Number 1: had not discovered this one yet.

Number 2: this one I had found and fully cited. @Barnes as this one piqued your interest, you can find an extended version in Post no.131.

Number 3: did not have this one, but I had previously identified other gods beneath from the Cimmerian pantheon in an earlier post:

  • Lir (god of primal sea), Mannanan Mac Lir (son of Lir, god of sea and weather), Morrigan (primary war goddess), Badb (secondary war goddess), Macha (secondary war and fertility goddess), Nemain, ‘the Venomous’ (secondary war and sacred springs and wells goddess), also mentioned are Dagda, Diancecht.

Number 4: this one I also did not know. But Conan has directly provoked Crom in both Expanded Universe works and Howard’s works. This serves as a further example that Crom will not likely destroy one for such things. Praying to him for aid seems to be the only soundly established catalyst at this point.

Conan directly threatens Crom, saying he will cut out his other eye if he ever met up with him! (he is commonly cited as having only one).~Savage Sword of Conan #138.

“Crom! His mighty shoulders twitched…Give me a clean sword, and a clean foe for me to flesh it in. Damnation! What I would not give for a flagon of wine!” ~The Scarlett Citadel

@JJDancer tell me, by any chance at all do you happen to know the book names or issue numbers these lore bites are extracted from? It is not that I disbelieve you, but I do like to cite them and would also like to expand upon each of the three if I could.

No need to apologise at all JJDancer, your post made my day. I would even give you all 50 of my daily ‘like’ allowance if I could! These resources are invaluable.

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All of the information I gleaned was from this wikki.

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So basically, stealing other’s literary work that on its own merits developed a following is okay, because they were a flawed human being? Interesting take there for sure.

How? No really, how do they have no idea about his life? This sounds like jealousy over someone else’s fortunate success with finding an audience for their artistic work, then it does any kind of thought out point. Howard lucked out, to a degree, he found his audience. That doesn’t diminish his talent, or make it any more acceptable to engage in intellectual property theft with ‘posthumous collaboration’ to try and more market one’s own writing built on another’s.

And this adds what? ‘That Hemingway guys’ stuff, all crap, was a drunk. So was the majority of early Stephen King for that matter. And don’t even get me started on H.P. Lovecraft.’ No really, that is how you sound with this. What have you ever gotten published that anyone will care about? Criticizing the work, one thing, this was just a Twitter level ad hominem to try and hold up a non existent argument.

And yet, only reason this game, films, now on a near century is about. Who is going to remember a single thing, a single thing, you have done in a century?

Yes, practiced commercial writers do that, to move toward the audience for their work. Nothing wrong with it. Lots of artist, not caught up in absurd purism do it. They have bits of writing, characters, or story ideas they rather like, but just do not have the best story for them. So, they tend to reshape through the creative process. What are you trying to say here? That REH basically did what a majority of fiction writers and story tellers do?

[quote=“JJDancer, post:468, topic:49196”]
In 1966, de Camp made a deal with Lancer Books to republish the Conan series, which led to the “First Howard Boom” of the 1970s. [/quote]

And?

Where are you even getting that? This is a rather bewildering assertion to say the least. Define ‘replaced’, please.

No, but I bet he wished a lot of the people who have taken his intellectual property had at least exercised the decency to acknowledge and pay to his estate some manor of compensation. Funny how until a professional rights holder and exerciser like Cabinet Entertainment got, and created Conan Properties International for the rights to REH’s work, a lot of the ‘Posthumous Collaboration’ stopped and has not been seen much of. Almost every time I see a Conan, Solomon Kane, Steve Costigan, or other beloved character of Rober E. Howard in print now, it is a re-print or new edit of his original pulp magazine submitted work, as that is where the reader market tends to be.

The Marvel stuff, Dark Horse Comics, etc. Some gems in there for sure. But published derived works, are not canon, they are just fan fic for profit. No one will ever see the Brian Herbert Dune series derivatives of his father’s works as on par to the original series. And I’ve hardly ever met someone that found the derived works of Conan on par to Howard’s originals, let alone superseding and ‘replacing’ them.

This one thinks much of Howard’s anger against a society that was demonstrably corrupt is what gave his works such a bite.
There is a primal satisfaction in responding to something being unfair with immediate and decisive action. Projected empowerment.

Also, it is somewhat tragic what happened to his estate. He had an explicitly designated heir. His not favoured father, however, ended up acquiring it. The one who should have inherited was so moved with grief they did not take it up, allowing the one who cared nothing for the deceased to swoop.

While those who carried the torch and continued publication do deserve credit, those crazy cultists at the REHupa also stirred up some enthusiasm. Likewise Frank Frazetta. Sometimes the time is just right for a thing and all the actors on board, or adjacent to, a particular idea manage to facilitate it’s return to the public eye.
Then again, the timing is also a thing. Howard wrote during a time of desperation and outrage at mass misery/disenfranchisement in the face of selective opulence. Look familiar to any of the times his work enjoys a Renaissance?

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It looks like I have a couple of rounds of thanks to offer here, two of which now overdue. Thankyou for your kind, and rather unprecented, support @Barnes. It great to have the support of a fellow Asura here. Thankyou also to @huffyhedgehog, I hope that our yearning for a placeable Ben Morgh sculpture, among other pissibilities, will someday come to pass. And a warm welcome and thanks to @traszad! Much obliged my good fellow.

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Ok great! Thankyou @JJDancer, I will start pouring over it in my spare time and see if any further lore relating to Crom can be extracted or expanded upon.

Well said indeed! And I am certainly in agreement that sentiment.

Tell me JJDancer. If I memory serves me correctly, you previously expressed in a post that you have a penchant for constructing your own RP Crom temples/shrines, call them what we will. Would you also support seeing Funcom add some additional Crom artifacts or goodies into the game, and if so, do you have a preference or vision of your own as to what you would like them to be? Finally, as with our 3 most recent signatories, would you be interested in adding your name to the petition by donating a ‘like’ to the Original Post…? No pressure, nor obligation. But I can only hope that the greater the numbers united in support, the more likely they will be to entertain the idea.

Crom is short for Atheist, so nothing period needs to be done.

Thankyou @JJDancer! Your support and your lore contributions are both tremendously appreciated.

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My pleasure to help.
Unfortunately, due to the Funcom new HOA rules, I demolished all of my shrines, as they were non functional, and just aesthetically pleasing.

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Still in favor of a Small Skull item… that does Nothing, but advance the 2 Journey steps.

All I want… all I need.

And some lamentation of ladies… I can hold out for Mods for that. XD

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I just want to see something actually atheist stay in the realm of it’s lore and aspect, far as I care crom is man and makes his own things happen not a god not no deity, I make no standard on caring for religion or not caring but I loved the option to make anyone just generally didn’t want to roleplay religion or had a real world hang up have the option. So if the staff can remember this.

I personally prefer and am bias as to want more darketo naughtiness and Zath scares. Wouldn’t mind More Zog, I believe that its right in spelling the tentacle god to be more menacing

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The same way people who have read the source material maintain that Crom = Atheism.
This one jests.

Conan himself notes that the “Avatars” in the Exiled Lands are most likely fraudulent. Not at all gods, but rather what people want gods to be, weapons with which to strike at their foes.
In short, the presence of mystic constructs within the Khari annex, invoked by mass murderers (Mitra canonically loves that human sacrifice) is no evidence of actual deific presence.

Regarding the greater false equivalence that Crom = Atheism…

Dystheism, Maltheism, Henotheism, and Deism are all closer to the mark, but still not there

The gold standard is Alatrism.
Which is the belief that there is one or more God, but the decision not to worship.

Possibly, as per the writings we find in the Mounds of the Dead, they are Misotheists.
Belief in and hatred of god(s).

This one knew that minor in comparative religions would be almost purely recreational, and it consistently lives up to expectations.

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I regard it as atheist as the religion offers no benefits to you, thus you are simply human/man you must survive on your own means not to say it means you don’t believe in the gods but rather you are simply human/man looking to survive on your own means. I think anything to change in the future for this should be heavily looked at before touched, I personally am Catholic but don’t participate in the habits of the aspects of religion but I like both the gods and Crom take on the atheist aspect and simply want it to be as pure as it should while all the religions be fun and original with out a overwhelming real world influence.

Also funcom more Darketo sexiness in clothing yes please. Also make something for the men too too many uggos and I like a balance.

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I mesn the cimmerians already have a preist, even tho its not for crom. Thats odd and shouldnt even be in the game if its true to lore. If all cimmerians worship crom like suggested, he would bring croms wrath right?

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That is not what the word Atheist means.

That’s like saying one regards a bean as meat because it has protein. Or regards an axe as a sword because it has a cutting edge.

Especially egregious as you throw the word “pure” around.

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Yes to the first half, no to the second.

Crom by default is ambivalent to what others due so long as it isn’t directly draw his attention (read: pester him).
As God of disasters and the will to overcome them, invoking his attention invites calamities.
There are extremely sparse and questionable (from an originalist stance) examples otherwise, but let’s leave them far aside for awhile.

In most of REH original material, most cultures seem Henotheist. That is to say they believe in the existence of most gods, they only choose to worship one or a small number.
In the case of Mitra worship it often becomes Monolatry. Which is belief in many gods but noting only one is worthy of worship.
Set’s priests’ habits of offing the followers of other religions seems to be more about power plays and less about theology. The reason Settites seek to be the lonely priesthood in the area is not about god’s persay, it is about divine ambition. Other faiths are simply in the way.

But wheeling back to the Cimmerians in the Mounds of the Dead…
There is a journal where someone throws a pity party because they prayed to Crom and then suffered. The nice person outside of town notes how messed up his former comrades are.
As Crom (generally) offers no gifts (that most sane people want) after birth, and there are no children in the Exiled Lands, it stands to reason that the weaklings who ended up there would be seduced by the power of the fake ass faiths (as they exist in the Exiled Lands, seriously, human sacrifice for Mitra? I’ll take feces that never fell for 800) and the power they offer. Being people unused to pervasive religious ritual, they simply aped the practices of their neighbors both to the west and the north, possibly with the addition of writings they found in the Mounds.
The friendly Ymir teacher is just north of the Mounds.
Also, it is implied that the mounds were once inhabitted by Aesir (as opposed to the Red haired Vanir to the West currently) as that is where one finds the ghosts and journals to make the Pride of the Aesir armour.
So, if this one must speculate as to why the Exiled Cimmerians worship Ymir, it is proximity and a desire for power.

Keep in mind, the people in the Exiled Lands are there because someone sent them there (unless they crashed on the coast). Some may be victims, but just as many may the undesirables of their cultures. Amongst grim Cimmerians, those who would be eager to fall to knees and suckle at some god for power would certainly not be considered pillars of the community.

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I suppose I say pure as in to keep the from aspects from being changed to radically. But my words.

You just keyword why I feel that something is “missing” from the game…
So I choose Hyborian every time, however I choose Crom too. I learn all the religions by habit but the only one I use is Set for antidotes and the last year I never upgrade the Altair.
Now if there were merchants selling set potions I wouldn’t build this either.
But let’s go to the keyword, exiles that made villages…
Why if someone chooses Cimmerian, the Cimmerian village is aggressive on him, her?
I mean that every selection of origin should has a benefit too. If however you ever decided to attack on your own race village then you would loose the hospitality of your own people :man_shrugging:.
Last but not least, I choose Crom and nothing else, let me use the damn sword, I have no avatars, no antidotes, no religion benefits, give me just this. Other than that, pve is the only mode you use 2h swords, in pvp you’re a dead meat even with sword of Crom.
Or give me the Berserk perk from 0 attribute points in strength.
Give me my birth right, the one that Crom gave me on birth.
About how a Hyborian can be blessed by Crom @Oduda helped me in the past to implement my ancestors line to be Cimmerians (fathers side) and Argoseans (mothers side).

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