Developer Stream Recap: November 21st, 2019

I guess you could always tie it to another button too. Id like to see both dodges in the game and accessible to any armor style with penalties to how much stamina is used and maybe to the speed of the dodge.

As to the no locking thing, I agree that there are major advantages to not locking on in combat, but I dont think that’s intentional and I think tying vital mechanics in the combat system to lock on would add dimensions to the combat system that the Devs are aiming to obtain. Devil May Cry 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 (Not dmc) for example. And the Soulsborne series.

Food for thought. I’m in the boat that doesn’t care much to see the dodge roll change, but I’m int that other boat that knows the combat is missing the develpers intended mark and am excited to see them work towards it.

And it’s scary being straddled between two boats with rough seas ahead…

I always feel that target lock-on is more a byproduct of controller-based movement schemes. It’s definitely a personal preference thing though and I prefer forward/backstep/strafing movements than those of 360-degree running which necessitates the camera direction being divorced from the direction the PC is facing. Something as integral as a dodging mechanic being connected to something like that in a game giving you the option for both doesn’t really sit right with me from a design standpoint.

I still believe that it was perfectly sensible to have the dodge types separated by armor classes.

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Thank you for putting an incredible amount of detail into the recap.

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Sometimes when I am out and about, full of logs and rocks and cant move, because encumbrance , i will dodge roll home sometimes…now picture seeing some weird lady rolling like that ape in the GIF down the river to get home…lmao
also , how do we fight if we get surrounded and our roll does not allow us to get out of the path of say 5 baddies? i feel like i could not roll fast enough to get out of the way…i will try this out but this is not looking like something i would enjoy in conan.

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I do the exact same thing. Typically I like to build along the southern river near the jungle so I will dodge roll to the water and then swim the rest of the way.

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Not, unless you are super good and have ultimate skill you can.

But your point is the exact same point what I’m trying to tell.
If you do the dungeons to easy with 5 players, devs are not going to do something about that in this case I guess. But I play alone and I need Healing Arrows (not really really need, but otherwise it is more waiting for getting thrall full HP, give some food will help), but it destroys the single player experience.

Isn’t that one of the hardest parts for devs to think about?
Open world pleasing for everyone, for single and multi players. You going to build/make dungeon for single player and the skill to beat the dungeon will be much lower compared to dungeon designed for a group of players (WOW)…

This is EXACTLY my concern too Cynn. It sounds to me like we will be given a penalty/cooldown time which allows enemies a greater window of time to wail on us before we can regain control and become mobile again, every time we perform a dodge. As I said and you probably gathered yourself, this is going to hurt Singleplayers, Solo PvE players and newer players.

THAT right there could very well be a death sentence for Singleplayer mode. It is going to kill the one mechanic which gives the three aforementioned player types a semblance of a fighting chance. We dont have clans to watch our backs for us. The only thing we have which allows us to survive against large groups is our ability to out manouver them. We NEED to be able to ‘roll and then sprint’ as you called it. Add in snail rolls and a penalty recovery time inhibiting the players agility to disengage and get away to heal, and encountering a group will be an assured death.

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Wouldn’t the leveled Followers help with this though? I realize that new players/low level characters will have a harder time soloing when I say that though. However, that’s justifiable in that the Exile Lands is supposed to be harsh and cruel (at least it’s justifiable to me).

To clarify I’m not saying that your concerns aren’t without merit. I’m just thinking, what are the alternatives if the dodge mechanic does indeed make escaping much more challenging (and again, we don’t really know until after it’s in our hands and we have had time to do some play testing).

Shield play could also see a bump (yay for my Javelin Improved mod) in that it offers additional defense where escaping via a roll isn’t as much of an option. Most players use 2 handed weapons for the offense, maybe a potential side-effect/benifit is that it makes Shield play more viable (PvE and PvP) in that you trade offense for defense.

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So just to be sure, your proposed solution is to let the Thrall do all work instead while I hide and fire Healing Arrows at it…? Why Crom should rightly blast me with a lightning bolt for being such a coward. Sorry but that is not playing a game as I understand the definition. Analogy: if I am playing Skyrim I want to be the hero slay the enemies and defeat Alduin. NOT hide in the background and cast heal other spells at Lydia until she completes the game for me. If I find myself at a stage where I need to rely on an AI controlled npc just to win battles for me, that to me says that there is something wrong here.

Oh come on…so its justifiable to squeeze one mode and playstyle to the point where they are staring over the very precipise of being able to even play the game so that we can rationalise a bad and uneeded change to an already outstanding dodge system? So coding a fully functional character and ultra fit barbarian to have cognitive decline and inferior reflexes is better than sticking with a tried and true system which works. Boulder dash.

It is time to call this change exactly what it really is…a nerf to dodging.

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No, I didn’t say that at all. Didn’t even enter my mind. So not sure where you felt that’s what I was proposing. I’m saying that if a group of 5 enemies engages you, wouldn’t a high leveled up Thrall or Pet assist in your defense in such a scenario?

I’m fine with increased challenge. My mod to-do list is filled with ideas to make the game harder. I recognize my opinion is not shared by all.

Again, I am not saying your concerns are to be discouraged or dismissed. I was merely interested in conversation on potential proposals on how to counter the “nerf,” with what information we have to go on without actually trying the new system.

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I normally do not have a thrall with me. my concerns are largely with how some glitches " appear" at the wrong times, like getting stuck on a rock , or if two or three baddies are around me , and my roll makes me stay in one spot. I have little faith that these glitches will not appear once this new " # sushi roll" is …rolled out.
so i am surrounded, i # sushi roll , stay in one spot , since i really do not take agility as a stat, i will from the gate be slower to respond or defend, and they just slice me up, because one baddie out of the three did a swing , but the other two are locked on to me and they are swinging already. meanwhile.
tuna sushi laying on the beach.
granted it is not rolled out yet, and i must try it to fully not like it, but i am not going in with a open mind just from what i have seen from the stream. way to slow even WITH agility.
I really wish they would just add a little more space for the bunny hop dodge in plate and leave the rest alone.
frankly I never saw anyone complaining about the rolls, more of the server lag and existing bugs…well here come a few more.

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I’ve been wondering about this as well, and have a couple thoughts to add:

As far as the dodge change will effect the combat side of things, I can see folks relying on daggers more frequently for their backflip after these tweaks go live. It won’t get you out of stun lock like a roll will (I tend to forget this at the worst of moments), but it can be helpful to gain some ground and re-assess your strategy if you use it before things get too hairy.

This might make archery a more attractive option as well. I’ve never attempted to seriously spec into bow use before, but it might be a good time to give it a shot (heh heh). Plus I’m pretty stoked to try out some mounted archery, even though I know I will be horrible at it! :sweat_smile:

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Well, that’s assuming the baleful gaze of the gods doesn’t get turned to the backflip next. Personally, the rolls look painfully slow, as if the characters have severe arthritis, or there is anti-gravity acting upon them. I sure hope stamina usage is greatly reduced because the characters sure look like they are engaging in their rolls quite leisurely, and not in a way that should consume 1/4 of the stamina bar anymore.

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Shhhh, they might be listening… :fearful:

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I had this same thought about shields watching the stream. Time to learn how to block stuff good, I reckon.

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Yay, and it would be awesome see some more “active shielding” implementations (or a “minor” defense with all weapons).
I understand the doubts of my old friend Croms-Faithful, we single players offline could feel the heaviest part of this roll nerfing, but honestly the current ball-roll is un-watchable, totally rapes my immersion during the fight.
As I said IF this roll nerfing is the beginning of a some sort of “remake” of the combat system I would be totally pleased (I doubt it but… lets see what happens)

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If you genuinely want more challenge that is fine. Build a mod as you said, adjust the difficulty. I applaud your skillset and giving players more options. And I mean that with genuine sincerity. However, if you or anyine else are one of these I can finish the game with one hand behind my back players, increase the difficulty to Barbaric or revert to an Stone weapon and regular Coarse Clothing for a while. You have options. But the rest of us should NOT have inaccurately named ‘increased challenge’ forced upon us. The option which presents more options is usually the better option.

It isnt even genuine challenge. I would say it is no different than drastically reducing the look left sensitivity/responsiveness or slowing the weapon swing speed to a crawl, or only being able to win a car race in reverse. It is manufactured challenge based on impeding ones ability to move freely.

This change will likely mean that new and Solo PvPers will be killed virtually every time by wandering groups of high level players, without a snowballs chance in hell of escaping them. Players should not forced to engage vastly superior opponents, who will kill them every time, and be stripped of any means of escape. Meanwhile Singleplayers and Solo PvEers wont stand a chance of defeating large groups of powerful enemies (even with a Thrall) who will rain free blows upon them while trying to roll out or retreat. And retreat will be bordering on impossible. Entire areas such as The Mounds of the Dead, New Asgaard and the Wine Cellar dungeon risk being unclearable by said players.

And it is exceedingly obvious that the community shares my fears, and simply does not want this change; just look at the likes. At its best, this nerf (yes I am comfortable calling it that) is an unecessary change. At its worst, it is a potential unmittigated disaster!

Look Multi I appreciate what you are trying to do here, trying to give us recourse options. I really do mate. And you are being an eternal optimist with a good heart. But at this point, I am more concerned with trying to convince the man behind the console not to launch the nuclear warhead than planning ways to live on among the fallout afterwards. I have literally seen not one-single-thread on the forum asking for the dodging system to be torn down and completely rebuilt from the ground up.

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Nor have I, at least not dodging specifically. What I have seen though are plenty of posts from the PvP crowd trying to figure out how to make PvP more engaging. The changes to the Lifeblood Spear, the nerf to the Sword of Crom, repeated changes to the spear, the Vit 30 regen nerf and many others all seem to have been focused around making PvP combat more engaging.

For instance, there have been plenty of threads complaining about the ease and regularity with which someone can withdraw from combat to heal completely, or that thralls are either of no help at all because the AI never kicks in, or that they hit too hard when their AI does activate.

So while I can understand the problem they are trying to address, when you take it in sum with other game-shaking changes like mounts and the thrall limits, the timing of it really feels overwhelming. Adding to this is the fact that many of us remember how we got major patches last year right before Christmas only for the servers to be in a constant down state the whole time were on vacation and eager to play. That apprehension is certainly lurking in the back of my mind.

So yeah, I’d prefer if they tweaked fewer “variables” at once. The thrall limit alone will be such a huge tumult to weather that taking on additional non-bug-fix changes just feels a bit much right now. Let’s see how having more AI resources freed-up, and having mounts capable of overtaking and trampling helps with personal combat before making such fundamental changes to the combat mechanics themselves.

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I won’t link any, but the dodge system has come up. Just usually inside of the threads about how combat is not immersive in PVP, when one can roll out of engagement with no skill. Then either hyper heal or just run away. The dodge is definitely being tweaked for PVP. Solo vs a hunting party of 5 will be hard to run away from. PVE-C has a 6 hour window on this. But in reality there is no real “Fear” or difference between PVE and PVE-C if one wants to avoid fighting other players. This makes them have to choose if they can live with 6 hours of being hunted down. PVP, will big clans can just wipe you, so they will do it with the dodge roll or not.

They almost admit it is a PVP change. AS for PVE, i did say i see it negatively effecting solo play. At the same time, you say you want to be the hero and not the thrall. I agree and feel the same way. But at the same time, a hero finds a way to overcome. sometimes it means realizing you need help. enter the leveled thrall, the companion for so many Journeys. In the movie, Conan needed his friends. There is no shame in having a crew.

The dodgeroll is a subthread on a lot of PvP reddits from about six months ago. I feel as if PvP contributions have really petered out there, at Steam and here, so the volume and frequency are low and rare. However, the unnatural roll has long been discussed as something that needed fixing. When it was installed, when Frozen North dropped and all the servers were wiped, everybody accustomed to the old “double-tap” lunge sort of said okay. I don’t think any of us thought it’d stay this way. It’s long, overspeed and with no cooldown too easy to exploit.

In other words, I believe the change to the roll will benefit the PvE player as well, by making it a skill to get out of deep danger, rather than a given.

Accept the change, and hope to enact other positive change in the process. I can understand that approach from you, and it inspires me to ask more of the upcoming system:

  1. Now that our toons have an acceleration from stop, we should have different rolls for different speeds.
  2. I’d like the double-tap (double-tap in any direction) restored to our interactions
  3. We should have a dive/lunge from a standstill
  4. It would be great to have a dive-roll that we can use during the landing phase of a jump.

Personally, I believe this change has been pushed because of mounts, and a desire to have them be relevant. With our current escape mechanisms, I can visualize a three-ring circus of mounted combat going nowhere, rapidly.