Dungeon and the pain of people not knowing what to do


#21

You’ve made it sound like it is actually possible to have heal tanks like in TSW :slight_smile:

Ofc. when there is party cleanse then no other heals are required. Self healing is pretty strong here to pull you through almost anything.

Speaking of HR6… as melee I kinda need cooperative tank there :slight_smile: DPS req. are extreme, can’t afford to loose much by safe running around just because red or yellow circles are out. So while managing red circle I’m running from side to side of boss just outside the cleave. An unannounced movement could lead to no win situation (ofc. I’m aware tank’s circle and his need to go to well in time and moving accordingly).

But there are few things tanks can do to make the fight easier:

  • if U-turn is needed, there is always time to do one step in the direction, wait for 0.5sec and continue. Just like dancing you know. Letting others know the intentions. (It’s good habit to have, using it on other bosses.)

  • tanking boss in the corner/side is always dangerous. Circles will spawn, the need for quick turn happens, long way to well. If the boss is turned and moved away from corner/side before the next well spawns there is much more room for manipulation, evading (and showing tanks intentions)

  • the same comes with the center well. Moving boss slightly further helps determine and prepare for yellow phase (like not being killed by wrong DOT and having some space for managing red circle while inside yellows). Instead of just getting first yellow layer out of nowhere


#22

Check out the sustain tanking guide. Towards the end of it, i posted a video showcasing HR4-6 in E10 doing group-cleansing and buffing as a sustain-tank. The same principle applies to HE3 as instead of Blindside or Savagery, you take an extra Wild Surge in case ninja lifeburn stacks from Prime Maker appear.


#23

Yes, that’s the impression I got from it. Sounds like it’s nothing of the sort.

Not watching a two hour video, sorry. Hammer/fist?


#24

Softskill: Be creative, be open minded, don’t panic, don’t vote retreat so fast. Find a way to solve problems instead of complaining.

Some chose to just lose the will of fight or even quit when any of those happens:
1, Tank fails. (surviving, positioning, lagging, not experienced…)
2, Healer fails. (My alts usually will not tell people that we can sustain, but some people seem just like to give up when they see healer die, why? :P)
3, DPS check fails.
4, Something they cannot understand happens. (All those bugs in The Buggest War or the new Flame Leash in HE or just something they’ve never seem before E5 )
5, People left. (disconnection, real life happens, whatever)

To 1,2,3 most of time “it’s other people’s fault” “they are incompetent teammates.” But, what’s more important is how we to solve this? (People I pug with NYR e5 knows I have a “final resort” even when everything fails. Same thing works in dungeons too as long as they don’t give up. :P)
To 4… find strategies to counter mechanicals or even bugs are fun…But, I guess only people who enjoys playing tank can understand it while others are slacking behind.
To 5… I have went though quite a few dungeons with 3 or 4 people :stuck_out_tongue:
I even find most talented people made builds and strategies so powerful that can clear e10 dungeons with 2 people.

What’s next? The most incompetent people will not study or try to understand those things. They just fear and ask to nerf those builds people are using, the mechanics they can’t overcome so that they think people can all be like them while the truth is they will always be incompetent with that mindset while people adopt, evolute their skills/builds/strategies can never be truly nerfed.


#25

Ooooh! An “elitists blame others thread”! This will surely end well.


#26

I do tank him and can say never fight in the middel, pull him to the sides and fight him their


#27

During the disco bubble phase? The only time he moves during Cast Out is if he bugs, and if he goes on walkabout, he should never be chased. Keeping him as centered as possible is how buggy Nephalim are dealt with.

When I said Eblis shouldn’t move, I mean he shouldn’t move because he is scripted to be stationary during that phase.


#28

I agree on that it is not necessary to be all the time 100% effective
and it is sad if u do tank something is not going well and the first one to blame is the tank
also is it not nice if u have a not meta dps build ang get blamed for bad performance

in the first place this game should be fun, but it also allowed to request a bit chnage inplaystile to get past a boss. just stay friendly ask polite and if u get a no smile and wipe till u get past or retreat

on that I cant agree no one is to mock or deride, plz

plz keep all in mind that is an option and u dont need to sustain tank
I run e6 and e7 as glance tank and with small adjustments I can keep aggro aginst e9 rdy dps e 10 needs to hold back a bit and we get past all bosses
yes a heal is needed for that and fights take longer cus of that


#29

that would be suicide, I meant in the red circle and sword charge phase


#30

lol, indeed. It was a remark only for the bubble phase :slightly_smiling_face:


#31

I find that by and large, most dungeon runs are fine, and everyone works really well as a team. I know, personally, i’m still relatively new to group content (only a few months’ experience) so I try and keep that in mind with those I’m with - especially on E1 difficulty, where you’re more likely to experience newer players.

That said, the two gripes I have in these…

  • People who leave the group because we failed the first boss (it happens, we’ll all retry)
  • As a healer, getting into a group and seeing “Healer can go dps, I’m fine on my own” from the tank. Which I don’t mind too much, but last time I was trying out a new healing build and didn’t get to use it :smiley:

But generally, it’s enjoyable. If it wasn’t, I probably wouldn’t do it.


#32

I heard this often and needed to go to leechheal /shotgun for some bosses in dung.
Hellfire Assault launcher is a good leech heal wepon u proc granede often and u can heal at 85dps/15heals most the time if things get hot u can save the tank or a clumsy dps

so flexibility in dung is very good, I recomend to all to think about a second build for dung


#33

Blame my bad, bad English ! That’s not what I meant ofc. But she cleanses and provides the little group heals needed

About MT, I said above that good tanks move slowly and only when needed, that covers most of your points. Positioning is also important, but good dps learn how to cope with most situations anyway, like don’t stand in spots were a well may spawn :stuck_out_tongue:
But really, so many times I have seen dps blaming the tank becouse he moved the boss into them when its obvious that he need to take the fastest route to the next well while its the dps that need to move the hell out of his way. One dps that runs away for a couple seconds is better then the whole group holding fire becouse the shield is on ( or a couple dead people, which happens quite often as soon as the shield pops)


#34

As explained to Elenoe that’s not what I meant, she provides cleanses and the little gorup heals needed.
Just something similar to what Szalord posted about.
It was just an example about how good players enjoy the challenge of solving problems and helping the team out, while others just prefer to be carried over hard.


#35

You do need a pretty solid gear advantage before you can leave the hammer/chaos sustain build behind and sustain with just the hammer though. Until then you can only heal/cleanse with your gadget slot, which you kinda need for impairs too.


#36

With machine tyrant it is 100 percent dps’s job to not get cleaved. There are 4 of you. You see where the well is spawning, clear the path. Really not hard. Everyone should be on his butt anyway as you get 1 shot in anything higher than 8 by wells and they spawn 15 meters out. If a tank has to worry about some stray dps standing in the path they’d not be able to pull him in time to get over the well and dots will kill the dps who WERE watching where they were going. It’s statements like this that seriously make me question some things. How unaware of their surroundings ARE dps? Or is it just a select few? (hint: there are dps that know how to position). It is REALLY hard to spin machine tyrant faster than dps can move behind him (you’d really have to try REALLY hard unless a dps was phoning it in and just tunnel visioned on their button rotation). Try tanking tyrant with dps that think the tank should have to find the way through the maze of dps to the well and then they’d complain the shield came up. Nope. Just move. Is it really that hard?


#37

When I tank I never tell the healer to go dps any more, after one ragequitted blaming Funcom for destroying her role … But even before that I never “told” them to go dps, I just let them know that if they wanted they could go dps as I could sustain tank, there is a little but substantial difference.
Now I go sustain and then usually is the healer asking me if I need heals or not. If they don’t ask I let the things go until we hit a dps wall, then I politely say that the best solution would be them to go dps.

When I heal usually if I don’t get info by the tank I inspect him and check how he is geared, then decide if to go full heals or half dps for the first fight, then decide what to do for the rest of the dungeon. I only seldom ask the tank if he needs heals as I find it quite rude and I don’t want anyone to feel compelled to go sustain.

As someone else said, I suggest you to have a dps build ready anyway, becouse the more you will level up the less you will heal. An half heals/half dps build is very handy too, adapting is the key :slight_smile:


#38

SO MUCH THIS! (just registered here to say that ^^)

On that note: When I tank MT I DO expect my DPS tank to GTFA when I try to lure him to the next Anima Well. On higher tier Dungeons it is very likely that I’ll run into a grp with at least one DPS player running DOTs which means I don’t have the time to run big circles around Melee DPS if I want to reach the next well in time before the shield comes up again.

Regarding dungeoneering with PUGs: I normally don’t run with them since I’m busy with key dumps for my cabal anyway. When I do run with them, I try to explain mechanics and strats that I’m using. I expect that people follow these strats and I admit that I’ll get pissed sometimes if someone disregards my instructions, e.g. when I specifically require my group not to interrupt Synapse Spasm in POL5 and some wisecracker interrupts that cast anyway. Really grinds my gears! :stuck_out_tongue:


#39

Well maybe it is because you’re asking for DDs to hold on their occasional interrupts which can be part of their rotations, such as Eruption. Why would you like them to not interrupt Synapse ?


#40

Eruption or HE Grenade is another story. If it happens, it happens. I’m talking about deliberate interrupts. As for the reason: I’m running three CDs (+ Mass Evulsion for purge/adds) for that fight and try to survive the regular phase with just Pain Suppression and Immutable. The longer the boss casts Synapse Spasm the more time I have for my CDs to replenish. I save my 3rd CD Thick Skin exclusively for the add phase to instantly gain aggro.