Endgame players ignoring the team in e1 runs


#1

I have nothing against endgamers running e1 dung, but… it really **** me when they don’t wait for the team - hello loading times - running alone, killing everything AND ignoring the fact, there are few moments in few dungeons when triggering the cut scene move all the team to player who triggered it. And as a side effect it can cause miss the loot if the first player is too fast in his speed run.

I remember this was discussed months ago. Most of endgamers in e1 are nice people, but sadly I have experienced one well known endgame player from a well known endgame cabal, who does this again and again. I know it is not allowed to name and shame, but as the game population is so small, many people would know who he is.

I tried to write him to wait for the team everytime I met him in e1s, but no response. Is it too difficult to wait for the team or - if he cannot wait - to run e1 farms alone or with few people who are actually interested in e1 speed run farms?


#2

I’ve experienced this many times, and it became more apparent to me that this was a problem when i started running my lower alts.
This HAS BEEN going - as you say - for months now.
In fact probably over a year.

What some endgame people seem to forget, or choose to wilfully ignore - (and they personally find this funny) is that fact that not everyone has sprint V or VI and CAN NOT keep up even if they tried. If they have never been in the dungeon before, then they would be left to find their way and fight trash adds that were left behind because for some reason - Endgame players can’t seem to be able to kill trash adds. For whatever reason.

Endgamers can kill trash adds with one shots - but choose not to because it’s far more fun for them to leave them behind using the excuse of “I want a fast run” - even though - they could queue solo and not create these issues in the first place.

This is nothing to do with those who form speedruns of E1’s in private.

But the moment you sign up to the activity finder - you forgo the right to “own” the dungeon and should be courteous at least and respectful and mindful of those who are joining you who may not be as geared, or experienced.

This is not only a problem in Dungeons but it’s also a problem in Storymode New York Raid.

Of course, running anything solo is no fun, this has been said many times by endgamers once questioned why they didn’t do the group content solo when they could have - but it’s no different in a group if you are not waiting or teaching anything and just run on ahead - in effect you ARE running it solo, which leaves only one conclusion; and that is - the fun is coming from making others lose out and causing them misery.

The only thing they show is the fact they are just all round bad players, not at the game. Just within their own selves as they are naturally leaning toward ticking someone off to get a kick.
This most likely spawns from boredom of waiting so long anyway or they are just that type of person.

I would go so far as to advocate the same type of lockout we have on storymode once you reach past gear levels so this doesn’t keep happening - if such players will persist and insist on ruining the play of others. Anyone overgeared for such content would have to queue in a private group - that way this ensures the members present - know exactly what they expect - such as a pre-advertised speedrun of an E1

I very much doubt what Funcom had in mind when they created this spread out of tiers in the system was that endgamers would be flooding the Activity finder queue with their red 70 gear - just to run an E1.

If anything puts off a new player running a dungeon for the first times to try and spend their keys or gain a bit of gear with their subscriptions they paid for - is not actually being able to get loot because it despawned and then having to wait again, and again, and again.

Thank you for bringing this subject up.
The promotion of this game relies heavily on our community and how we show it and ourselves.

“Reap, what you have sown”


#3

This is the most simple solution.
Maybe make it so you can still go back and help friends for a few E levels, but put a limit to it.
And even with such a limit, you would still have the private group choice if needed.


#4

I can see how that would pose a problem - for those who want or need to help their friends who are lower level than they are.

And if it did come to that - which i very much doubt it will - it would be a price paid by all - because some wouldn’t listen to reasonable sense the first time round - last year.


#5

It’s a difficult subject to resolve tbh. If you’ve got someone who is rushing through a dungeon and leaving others behind, then there’s not really any way that you can stop them except intiating a vote kick. Most of the dungeons don’t have teleport cutscenes (ankh 4 and polaris 6 are the only ones that i can think of), but triggering them early is hardly something limited to end game players. I’ve been in plenty of level appropriate runs where it’s been triggered early - some by new players, some by veterans.

In an e1 it can be a lot worse because of different sprint levels, I agree.

I think enforcing an upper gear cap would cause more problems than it solves. The cap on story mode is something that many people already complain about. Some players prefer to run easy dungeons when levelling, and losing access to them in the group finder puts some people off running story mode at all. I doubt expanding that problem would be a good way to fix a problem caused by a very small minority.
If you went for the option of having ip limit that’s a few e-levels higher then you’re still going to have the same problem tbh. The difference between e1 & e3 gear is still enough that you’d get people in e3 alts speed running for agents, or just have people taking off items to drop their ip or even having a set of greens to wear when they enter the queue.
The size of the problem being addressed isn’t really big enough to warrant the effort that it would take to create a system that couldn’t be bypassed.

If you are grouped with someone that you recognise and is likely to be speed running without the group’s support, then you’re pretty limited. Your best option is to persuade them to slow down and show some courtesy, but if they aren’t listening then you have to decide what you want to do.

  • You can initiate a vote kick - but others in the group may prefer to just grab what loot they can rather than potentially waiting on a replacement.
  • You can advise the others in the group that they should just keep sprint on and head straight for the chests - let the person in the rush just carry you. It’s not something that many will enjoy, because it’s always better in a dungeon to feel like you’re contributing somehow, but if the fights are over so fast you won’t really help anyway, it’s an option. :confused:
  • You can leave the group - probably the worst option as you’ll end up with deserter (unless the others are kind enough to kick you). It’ll mean that you don’t use any keys, so can still run a full dungeon, but it sucks hard if the group finder’s taken ages to pop.

I think this is a stretch. Not killing stuff is rarely described as fun by anyone (unless you’re having to work to stay alive whilst not killing anything). Most of the time dungeon groups will avoid pulling packs of adds if they don’t have to, because there’s little/nothing to be gained from killing them. Spending time doing something that gives you nothing isn’t fun for most people. Over time, it just becomes an ingrained habit to skip packs that you don’t have to kill. It’s useful for new players to know about the paths you can take around mobs too, instead of just leading people through the most dangerous path purely because it presents no risk to you personally.

I think this is pushing it really. It’s possible, but it’s a serious stretch. Most e10 people who I know that run e1s through the group finder see it as a bit of a benevolent thing. The thought is that if they’re going to run the dungeon anyway, why not take along 4 people to get a boost? The arrogant extreme is that due to the speed of the run, it doesn’t matter if they don’t get all of the loot, because they’re still getting something for little to no effort.
It’s nowhere near as common to hear that though - I’ve only heard one person say that, and I called him a jerk for it. I’ve never heard anyone claim to be speed running stuff because it’s fun for them to upset the rest of the group.


#6

There’s definitely a lot of players who can’t or won’t understand that not everyone sees efficiency as the single overriding rule by which you should live your life. The absolutely will not allow anyone else to do foolish things like “play” or “enjoy” the game when they could instead be gaining the most rewards in the least time. :v:


#7

I think you’re misinterpreting player behaviour.

There are some players (not all) who believe that to “play” and “enjoy” you should be gaining the most rewards in the least time. They aren’t doing it for efficiency’s sake, that’s actually one of the things which helps them have fun. In their view, people who are taking their time and chatting are the ones who aren’t playing or enjoying the game.

There’s no single right perspective, just a lot of projection about other people not playing properly (from all different perspectives).


#8

I don’t think it’s possible to initiate a vote kick - most often it comes back with the message - “unable to do that at this time” - perhaps because they are in combat (i’m not sure) I’ve never been able to initiate one.

Hell Eternal’s last cutscene, also - I was referring to a point made by a player who said this in Agartha that players who didn’t make it up to the NYR lurker - would be ported to the loot crate once they had killed it for them, Like they were the only person required in the raid of 10. Was more of a point of the players attitude. Some are triggered early by inexperience - but when you know it’s done deliberately - then it’s an entirely different issue.

I agree here too.

I disagree in part - It is a minority of people causing the issue of “Hoovering” the dungeon, not for the loot themselves, but to get to the last box in the hopes its blue, as if they were doing an “E1 speedrun” for agent chance. However - Using the Activity finder for this - really isn’t a wise choice as it’s not really the purpose, not everyone in that queue is in it for that reason. That’s where private grouping comes into play and is mutually beneficial, as all players within that party are there for the same reason. People in the AF level E1 are not.
Once you frequent this queue in that level, and see it daily - it is a problem.
It’s been daily for nearly a year now.

This ^^^ is exactly what this below is referring to - by those players who said it.
Odd? Yes lol but it was said and questioned in Agartha chat. With the excuse of “i want a fast run, you will be ported to the loot once i have finished” - other players commented that they didn;t need to leave anyone behind since they were overgeared and could have killed the trash mobs in NYR and not have everyone dead at the door. The other excuse was “get a faster PC or run faster” - i should have clarified that this part was in ref to the NYR SM instance where those with red 70 gear who run to the top without killing the Filth guardians and adds in the garage, in effect feed the lower inexperienced players to the wolves as it were. Making a NYR SM a lot harder than it seems for some, tedious for vet alts and un-necessary in reality as a whole.


I completely agree - and this is where the role of a veteran player should come into play. That is the best role they can have, after all - they will eventually meet them again once at the top of the tiers and will remember those who have showed them the way and those who made their progression harder or un-enjoyable.

the fun is coming from making others lose out and causing them misery.

This is true - unfortunately. Because there is no reason once told for a year for it to still continue, or when asked to hold it back a bit respond with laughter or even no response at all in the OP’s case.
I think you have to be on the recieving end to be able to see when and how it happens. I have 8 toons and i have experienced this many, many times. It’s sadly not just possible, it’s a daily fact and has been for a long time now. Perhaps even - it’s the same people or person you could have ran with, and they haven’t done this to you - but when you have alts and they don’t know who you are - you see them in a different light.

Whatever their reason - they have been asked not to do it MANY times and are still doing it to this day.
I have no issue in people taking others along for the ride when they offer. I see it a lot actually. The offer of a speedrun in E1 - but that is a private group where the intention has already been laid out.
The AF doesn’t have this rule as it were and sometimes, you are left with actually nothing at all.

There have been times where i have had to run after the person and collect loot before the crates despawn and the share it out through my own guilt when the guilt was not mine to bear, just because i was present and i could not and would not leave the others in that situation. Everybody is diff and they all have their own playstyles - but when you actually know this is causing upset or making it un-enjoyable for others. You have a problem. And it exists. No point in burying heads in sands about it.
There are people out there who scoff and laugh when others say “Hey, wtf do you think you are doing”?
shrugs
Aliens…
Like Awol has said - it is all to do with perspective also.


#9

In retrospect - i am perhaps a bit harsh to advocate a cap on the system.
but I completely sympathise with the OP’s comments and know that this happens too often in both the AF dungeon queues and NYR SM - when the vets doing this, should know better.

But when you are faced with it happening to you at the time - you wish for it to come lol

Or for their fingers to rot off.

In fact “I hope that their toilet doesn’t flush”


#10

I don’t know if it’s something about timezones and who is on, but I’ve run a lot of e1 dungeons on alts (because having a load of alts during events can be handy!) and whilst I’ve seen plenty of e10s grinding blue chests, the only time I’ve ever lost out on loot has been from e1 players triggering cutscenes early - it’s never been the veteran.
And it’s not because they know it’s me and I need the gear, I find it amusing when I get grouped with a friend and they have no idea it’s me :smiling_imp:

In my personal experience, it’s a very very small minority of people who speed run in a toxic way. I’ve heard about it happening before, and I’m not disputing that it does happen, but I think that the number of people doing it is so low that it’s hard to justify the effort and time to overhaul the system to try to prevent it. It really sucks that it’s an issue at all, specially if it’s happening to the same players repeatedly.

There is a problem generally with MMOs that anti-social behaviour which doesn’t breach any actual rules is really hard to stop. Societal pressure is undermined by automated systems meaning that you can’t effectively shun someone who acts badly. In an ideal world, there would be some kind of incentive to act positively, but that’d take a lot more systems than we have available. About the only thing I can think of which would help in SWL would be for the group finder to not group you with people on your ignore list. That way if you do meet someone with different goals in a dungeon, you could avoid being grouped with them in the future.


#11

Same here - and this is who it refers to in any case. (in the AF not in Private groupings)
And it would be sad if such an overhaul did happen because of this, but again i did say - i very much doubt that it would. Any new lowbie player who has triggered a cutscene i have always chalked up as inexperience - benefit of the doubt. If it’s done by a vet, multiple times - you can safely say that’s complete ignorance, or sheer brass neck.

For you this possibly is a saving grace lol -

Sometimes - being vocal in public does help others to become aware of the issue and the perpetrators also become aware that others know what they are up to.
While we can’t name and shame - we can always ask in private who they are, and word does get round and lessons are ultimately learned the hard way.


#12

Best not to have an opinion on anything ever because both sides. :v:

Seriously though, I didn’t say anything about people playing the right or wrong way - though now that you bring it up there is absolutely, undeniably an objectively right perspective here and it is “people with 1600ip who want to clear e1 dungeons in three earth minutes can do that in a private group without imposing their ‘efficiency uber alles’ playstyle on four hapless randos”.

There’s no easy way to fix it though, at this point the entire groupfinder needs rethinking from the concept stage up because it’s not fit for purpose in a multitude of ways.


#13

As I mentioned. Most of endgamers running e1s are nice people who communicate and are helpfull. The experience I had is with one concrete player, who has been doing this for a long time - and I am not the only one who experienced it, even after it was discussed with officers of his cabal.


#14

Can you still ignore a person and have that affect who you get queued with? That’s an option, perhaps, for lower level players who find them persistently in dungeons with a particularly thoughtless player.


#15

I don’t think that ignoring someone stops the activity finder placing you in a group with them, no.


#16

^^This^^


#17

You can skip e1. And I would advise to do so if one single player gives so much frustration. Green gear from bags, KD containers, SA missions and scenarios will pull you to e2 in 1-2 weeks. Which is nothing compared to farming mountain ahead. 10 levels of same dungeons is an abomination. They can and should be skipped. This game is designed this way: to force endgame players play starting content. It was same at decline of TSW.

PS: There is another very simple fix which won’t happen though - raise agent drop chances in higher difficulties.


#18

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#19

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong on two counts

  1. You aren’t allowed to name and shame
  2. Once you use the AF you forgo the right to “own” the dungeon - that is what “Private” options are for and the reason for why others with more sense actually advertise as such. They are free to join those groups if they will have them.

If anything, these people are abusing the “Random” element by not caring who else is there with them, like the other people don’t matter and THEY are the only important one, scoffing at them for - in their view - not being as good as them, when the reality is, they aren’t as fast or as experienced and are indeed a “Hapless rando” left to the devices of such players.

Thanks for clarifying the perspective from this type of player - which is neither helpful, nor necessary.

Your view on this is your perspective and this is the type of perspective that is wrong.
IMO


#20

Why the hell should low level players avoid the activity finder because of a minority of selfish players who actively get a kick out of ruining the gaming experience of players who are relatively new to the game? that is a ridiculous thing to suggest , however @AndyB should be getting involved here because this type of behaviour has been going on for over 1 year & certain people have been getting away with this for far too long .