Endgame players ignoring the team in e1 runs


#21

Especially when it is a very small group of players who have been doing this for a long time and they have been repeatedly asked to respect lowbies and it was even discussed with their cabal officers as far as I know.

Is it really difficult to change the behaviour a little? Why there can be ones who even on fast runs via group finder, are able to inform about it on the start of dung, wait for the rest of team on critical places, don’t trigger cut scenes etc. It makes their speed run about 1 minute longer maybe. Is this 1 minute too important for the peope we discuss here?

The “advice” not to use group finder to avoid few sociopaths would be nice, if there would be quite bigger and less fragmented game population. The sad truth is that even with cabal and friend list it is sometimes really difficult to make full team in current state of this game.


#22

Maybe I’m lucky, but a player ignoring the team has happened to me once in hundreds of runs.

The only issue I have with Endgame players in E1 is with my second character, who is tank-geared. It’s difficult to hold aggro with E1/E2 level equipment when someone else is turning out 6-7k DPS (and yes, I know not impossible, but I’m still learning!)


#23

Activity finder is jumping into a pug and comes with certain risks. If you can’t handle the risks, advertise in Agartha or a custom channel like sanctuary for a relaxed lowbie E1 run.
Don’t like someone in your pug? Vote kick exists for a reason, but maybe the others are happy to be carried through a dungeon they’ve already run 5 times earlier.

Calling people sociopaths because they have a different motive to run a dungeon is also very ironic.


#24

How about - “Reverse scaling” - if you are overgeared, it scales you down so you are “on level” with the content you just chose to run. Much like an Equal Footing Buff, but in reverse. The buff would then be less imposing on you the closer you are to your level or just not present once above a certain level.
And “Non existent” in a private group.

We get to choose how difficult we want certain content to be, faction missions, dark agartha - even the AF is a choosing of the content difficulty we want to run.
We get scaled in shambala with the PVP EFB
But it is of no use if you are the one causing the difficulty because of gear level vs content lvl vs those who you are with.
There is a lot to cater to the high geared - but nothing that caters and looks after the lowbies so their training runs or runs in general are not ruined or interfered with on this level.

You also can’t initiate a vote kick if the person running ahead is in combat. It doesn’t allow it.

The excuse of “don’t run AF as it poses risks of this nature” is not something anyone should have to put up with. That’s an excuse so they can carry on regardless of this problem actually being a problem.

That attitude or viewpoint is neither helpful nor is it necessary.

Really, is this what it comes to because of people who can’t understand others’ feelings and make impulsive decisions without feeling guilty? - this by the way is the definition of a sociopath. I think in this case - it’s justified.

If anything - its the speed running red e10 lvl person - who should go for the advertisement that they are about to run a quick E1 and offer folk who do not mind this to come with them, not use the AF and end up tickin off those who didn’t sign up for that.

It is pug yes, but it’s also a relinquishing of any “ownership” over the content just because you are higher geared than the rest.


#25

Then, by all means, keep sticking your hand into the fire if you like that so much. I know I didn’t and stopping to use the activity finder was the logical conclusion for me.


#26

As there is a time limit when you can start voting, your argument is out of question. When the time rans out, the person doing speed runs is already in the end of dungeon.

Did you read what we talked about? It is about situation when people are asked to wait on certain parts of dungeon not to trigger cutscenes etc. at least to avoid possibility to not receive the loot. And they are repeatedly ignoring this very basic thing. Isn’t it a sociopathic behaviour?


#27

A reverse scaling would avoid the need to report, call for a ban, name shame, ignore, nerf/increase agent drop rates/tweak - anything.
The choice would then be up to the individual completely.
Choose AF and be scaled down if you are overgeared, untouched if not - not scaled if private and you can speedrun all you like. (the overgeared would then be the ones advertising this type of run- as some do already - which is not the concern here as that type of run is no problem at all)

Problem solved all round.

And Svella

This type of action only serves to exasperate the problem further as you choose to give in and not stand up for those who were left behind. Which at some point, must have included yourself.
Giving further reason for the ones who keep doing it - to keep doing it.

If we all give up - then where would we be?
But if you have given up on that, then you have nothing to add except where your experience led you, and that was to: Not participate in the trauma of the AF at the mercy of someone higher geared than you.

Which is what the problem is.


#28

Funcom have their top men working on it right now.

I guess that makes you a sociopath by admission.


#29

In what way?


#30

I’d be interested to see how you turn this. Really i would.
if you have read this thread at all - you will have already noted that i felt guilt for those who received nothing - because of players who have no guilt by their actions have chosen to do.
That guilt was not mine to bear. That’s actually called empathy - quite the opposite of what you are accusing me of.

I also have an understanding of why the E10 players choose to run the E1 dungeon.
I also have an understanding of why the select few choose to run an E1 and care not for who they are with or what the others get out of it, as long as they get what they want.

If you could explain how you came to this conclusion from that, it would be most helpful to the readers.
You either are misunderstanding - or are trying to defelct.


#31

The relelvant point is that you should not have to do that Svella, you are a veteran player so for you that might be viable, but i am talking about the low geared peeps who are new to the game in particular , they under no circumstances should be treated this way , what kind of an example is being set? if the community says “oh just dont use the activity finder” that is not the solution, the solution is @AndyB as community manager having a quiet word with the people concerned.
Because at the end of the day the game stands to lose new & valuable players all because of a few who don’t care about the game, community or Funcoms retention of playerbase, these people are giving the community a bad name & ruining the experience of low levelled players & it’s time it was put an end too before we lose more players., it’s as simple as that.


#32

So you’re saying a person with 1600 item power can’t clear an e1 dungeon on their own? :v:

And that different motive is pretty clearly “annoying people” because if it was “clearing the dungeons as fast as possible” they’d be doing it solo instead of waiting for a full team.


#33

How about they fix it the proper way, bring back Facility so people who rush get to spend 20 minutes in Fac3 or get deserter

Having ignore work to block AF from matching you with people is the best solution I’ve seen…


#34

To assume that facility would be implemented to fix the problem is pie in the sky, it needs to be understood loud & clear that funcom will not spend time or resources to fix such a problem being created by so few .
As for your point about having the ignore function to stop players grouping with others, no that too could be abused by people & their friends to isolate players they do not like .
It’s very simple 2 known players are making this problem & the community manager is just the person to sort this situation out very quickly, the only thing that needs changing or adjusted is the attitude of the guilty parties, time to step up & protect the playerbase.


#35

I like the fact that yes, bring back other dungeons. I have no idea why they aren’t present in their elite tiers yet after a year (coming up two very soon)
But trusting Funcom to get a system that works in this case, is doubtful.

And if one person ignores someone so they can sit in a queue and they know it won’t pick that person, I ignore X and Y and Z - XYZ dont get picked and others do, i get my friends to ignore XY&Z and the whole things becomes something it shouldn’t because some people can’t be trusted to just do things properly or respectfully.

As it has transpired and the reason for this post in the first place.
People not doing things respectfully.

I’ve been on the receiving end of such a thing by a different example, when some people group queued as 1 Tank and 1 healer in my tier deliberately - knowing it wouldn’t pick my role and i was left out of the queue popping for me for a number of months.

Just because i chose to level a healer in the pure heal role who had 0 hit rating and was a useless DPS.


#36

That goes both ways though, if you ignore XYZ and they’re ahead of you in the queue, it won’t pick you, if they’re behind you in the queue it won’t pick XYZ. The majority of players will always be outside petty feuds unless it comes to their attention (eg. if someone’s ruining E1 runs on a mass scale)

There’s still no such thing as a pure heal limited character, 0 hit rating is not preventing you doing dps, but whatever, no need to rehash that debate. The entire dungeon system is balanced to exclude healers and they’re no more likely to fix that than add Fac.


#37

Indeed, no need to rehash that one and it’s not the topic of the OP. It’s just an example of how people can be disrespectful and not able to play with a group, in group content.

But i didn’t say she was limited to it, because she isn’t limited, just not as good as someone in all the DPS gear which gains energy for the weapons or does extra damage, with 0 hit rating - glances do nothing so in effect you are useless coz you can’t gain as much energy for the DPS weapons, etc the only thing limiting is the space for her to carry a DPS set so she can be as good as any other DPS.
I do often go DPS with her or leech, but it’s of very little use in anything over E5, but then i don’t really frequent anything above E5 (e6 max) as it is anyway, and i am happy with that.

She ended up having to be a dedicated role.
And i continued with that.
I have 8 toons - only one of them is dedicated to this role for a reason.
i have others who have full DPS sets and i do notice the difference in terms of energy gained and the usefulness of the gear and weapons.

But the idea that funcom can come up with this solution to fix the queue based on the ignore function, is not something i would want to leave in their hands.
But the queue system still favours groups over solo queued players.
and still ports people into a NYR with no tanks if only 8 of you get in.
And still gives you deserter if you crash coz it can’t distinguish that it wasn’t you just up and leaving.

Like someone said - the AF is fraught with a multitude of problems.
If they do manage to come up with a good, workable solution then that would be great.
experience tells me otherwise.


#38

Unless there’s a change in ToS or community standards, it’s not. As far as the rules of the game go, as long as no-one is being harassed, insulted etc then there’s nothing which would justify an intervention by staff.

It’s not a rule of the game that we have to be nice to each other.

Frankly the amount of work that would be generated by having the staff get involved because one player was inconsiderate or rude to another would be crazy. Andy could have a word with people, but if he got involved now, then it potentially opens the floodgates for further demands for intervention.

Reverse scaling dungeons would involve an overhaul of the whole system. It’d mean massive amounts of development and testing - which as most of us accept is pretty darn unlikely. It’s also possible to act anti-socially in games where reverse scaling already exists, so it’s not quite the magic bullet it might appear.

In terms of the actual size of the problem, it’s hard to tell without actually being able to look at the numbers only FC can see.
By the time that a player has reached e1 they aren’t exactly totally green. Players who have a negative experience of any sort will hopefully be invested enough to not be put off immediately. Given that the number of players that people have issues with seems to be low, it’d be possible that people will have a problem with them rather than walk away totally. Sure, some will, but if they’re willing to walk that soon, then their commitment to the game is unlikely to take them through the grind for long (because sooner or later we all have a negative encounter with another player).

Honestly, atm I’d expect more players to be leaving during e1 content due to not being able to heal than because another player was discourteous. But again, that’s not something which I can back up, because I don’t have access to any metrics. /dreams of data


#39

Then this is what it comes down to , potential player losses if somebody from the team does not intervene wether it’s in the TOS or not , we are a community, Andy is the community manager & in all liklihood the 2 players guilty imo would think twice about their behaviour if spoken to by somebody from the team , the team has a choice solve it with a polite word or let it carry on & face possible losses, it’s common sense to do the former , there is no work involved just a private message & hopefully a change in behaviour from the two players concerned .
As for opening the floodgates i think most people have a sense of perspective & know funcom is not going to intervene in personal disputes, this is different the amount of players over the course of a year who have been affected by this behaviour could be quite substantial & it’s in funcoms best interests to put a stop to it.
While personally i’m not affected by those two players it seems many have been & for no other reason than to what you could class as harrass by denying them their loot boxes, there is just no getting away from that point .
However there are community guidelines & GM’s do use those guidelines to deal with people who use harrassment , i’m sure the issue can be solved by looking into that area & using the powers they have there.


#40

Community manager doesn’t mean that he’s in charge of managing the community (even if it sounds like it).

I think that anyone who has experience in customer relations will have a good chuckle at this :smile: You would be amazed at the petty complaints that make up the majority of the work.

Not getting to open loot boxes does not remove your ability to use your keys. Is it most convenient to use the max number of keys to minimum number of dungeons? Heck yeah. Is it actually denying you the opportunity to spend your keys? Nope. If it was still the TSW once per day lockouts, then there’d be more potential weight, but not using your keys isn’t the same as not being able to spend them.

Again, poor manners does not breach community guidelines. It’s not harassment, specially if the individuals are treating everyone the same. It may be considered anti-social and rude, but it’s not Funcom’s problem. Ultimately, it just means you disagree with the way that they play the game. Without any actual rules being broken, I don’t see Funcom getting involved. You could try opening a petition in game and asking a GM if it’s something they will act on, but that’s probably your only shot.