Feedback: Sigils in 2.3

I would like to initiate a discussion and share my thoughts as well as those of the community I am part of in the following post:

1. Sigil of the Fiend: (…) preventing the player from losing other sigils that they have in effect. - It protects all other equipped sigils from being destroyed/dropped on death. If you have that one equipped, it is the only one destroyed, you keep all other sigils equipped.

We had a heated discussion about this one and how it may affect PvP. I would love to hear what the rest of you think about it. Essentially, you will have to farm all vaults once and then only maintain this one sigil.

2. Sigil of the Drowned: (…) boosting their ability to carry while injured.

I personally quite like the concept of this sigil. Being overencumbered can still result to death in PvP but at least you have a chance to escape if you are not quick enough to drop some stuff after looting.

3. Sigil of the Demon: (…) allowing to run further without rest.
101 foundations with a sigil vs 64 foundations without a sigil. Decrease stamina consumption through sprinting by 40%

We feel that 40% is extremely high value, especially in PvP. Considering that 2.3. is adding also armor pieces that reduce the stamina drain/increase regen while sprinting, we would consider reduction of 20% more than reasonable (equivalent to about 10 grit).

4. Sigil of the Bat: (…) boosting their ability to jump when sprinting.
Not sure how useful this sigil would be but I have not found a way to abuse it due to the momentum required for it to be used. It doesn’t seem to affect the double jump either, so I suppose it is fine as it is.

5. Sigil of the Harpy: (…) giving them the ability to cling tenaciously to walls when they should have fallen.

I have some serious concerns about this sigil from PvP perspective. When you run out of stamina while climbing, you fall. With this sigil, you can continue climbing but it starts draining your hp instead. So you can eat a feast and keep climbing. In combination with the wanderlust effect, I already see it being abused. EDIT: Sated is not cancelled by the hp drain.

6. Sigil of the Gremlin : (…) boosting their capacity to recover resources. - +1 harvesting power, further affected by the harvest rate.
Nice little boost, nothing major.

7. Sigil of the Twice-Drowned: (…) allowing them to make occasional attacks without stamina cost. 20% chance for stamina free attack.
Nice little boost, nothing major.

8. Sigil of the Wolfmen: (…) providing them health for every enemy killed. Heal 20 HP for every kill.
Considering that you only get the HP on the actual kill, it shouldn’t be an issue. I’ve always wanted some sort of vampiric effect :slight_smile:

9. Sigil of the Serpent: (…) boosting the ability to remove poison from their blood.
This sigil was not working for me at the time of testing, I will have to re-test.

It removes 2 stacks of poison every 2 seconds or so with 0 survival. I would suggest nerfing this sigil to remove 2 stacks of poison every 5 seconds instead (the normal poison duration is 10s if not re-applied). This would allow for 5 ticks of poison before the poison is removed unless cleared with a cleansing item/antidote.

10. Sigil of the Outsider: (…) scouring corruption from their soul. Very minor corruption removal, ticks every 20 seconds
The corruption removal can use a slight boost in my opinion.

11. Sigil of the Goblin: (…) boosting their hardiness.
It provides some damage reduction but I don’t have sufficient testing on this to form an opinion about it.

12. Sigil of the Snakemen: (…) boosting the thickness of their blood.
Reduces bleed de-buff timer (from 20 to 3 seconds at 0 survival).

We consider a reduction of 20 to 3 seconds unballanced. We would suggest starting with reduction of 20s to 10s and adjusting from there.

13. Sigil of the Wolf-brothers: (…) boosting their ability to coax more out of their mounts.
It affects the stamina usage while riding, however I don’t have sufficient testing in order to form an opinion on it yet.

14. Sigil of Jhil’s Brood: (…) boosting their ability to survive long falls.
This sigil doesn’t seem to work or I am doing something wrong. I see no difference between the damage I take with or without.


Where do you get this info?

From TestLive + TestLive DevKit.


Whoa. That sounds like a monumentally bad idea, and not only in the PVP context. Several of the other sigils confer non-trivial advantages in combat situations. So now if you kill another player, they will still have all those advantages guaranteed. They just need a healthy stockpile of this sigil and they’re all set.

Speaking of a healthy stockpile, can you imagine what this will do to this vault in a PVE context? Yeah, I know they’re lowering the vault the cooldown to 10 minutes, but still, I foresee a lot of teeth-gnashing from all players when it comes to this vault.

True, it might foster some conflict on PVE-C servers. I can already imagine someone who tried to get into this vault 5 times before, and they lost their patience and decided to gank whoever they find inside.

Preventing the loss of all other sigils is a bit too much, methinks.

Ooh, I like this one, but for different reasons. I’m not overexcited about the PVP ramifications as long as horse+lance+cat is still the meta. But I like it for farming purposes.

I’m confused about this. Did they change how the sated buff works in 2.3? It should stop healing you as soon as you take damage, right?

Aww yisss!!! :heart_eyes:

Oh, hell, from 20 to 3? Waaaaaay too much of a reduction.

Question: do any of these effects apply to followers? Specifically, the Wolfmen and the Snakemen sigils?

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If you stop moving while climbing you don’t take damage giving you a chance to heal from food. Just like you don’t burn stamina while climbing if you stop moving.

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Yes, but as long as no one damages you, you can keep climbing. If I remember correctly, the hp drain didn’t count as damage (don’t quote me on that) but I could sit there regen to full and then continue climbing.

I could no longer use sigils to followers but not sure what will happen with the followers that already have sigils on them before the patch.

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Oh, that would explain it. For some reason, I thought that once you’re out of stamina, even hanging on would keep draining your health.

@Chaoruk understand your frustration and I have attempted to offer solutions where I feel I have such. If you have any thoughts on how to improve the sigils without removing them, I would be interested to hear them.

Just for your info, quite some stuff in DMT is developed by an actual Funcom Dev as a little offtime project but he doesn’t want his name on it. He later shared the sources files as well for other modders to use. Contrary to the popular belief the devs actually care about modding and often help by answering questions and even offering solutions.


Thank you Narelle for the Info and time you"ve put into Testing this.


By Crom! I spurn this sorcerous madness and the cohabitation with the demonic and unlife! Trust the sword and the guile of the warrior. #sigilsfortheweak


Great info. I was just finishing my vaults yesterday, so I could document all the sigil “info” into one place. Saved me a bit of time :slight_smile:

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Havent played on live, but for poeple like me who play PVE only, the fact that you lost sigils upon death was really a nice feature, finally dying had some drawback. It was quite elegant also, you dont loose anything vital, but at the same time you loose some useful boosts, so it incentive you to stay alive.

giving a sigil that prevents loosing other sigils seems a pretty bad idea imho, completely negating what i described above

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Thanks for taking the time to post your opinion on how these should be balanced @Chaoruk. The idea we came up with for fiend was to remove the chance for sigil destruction upon death and replace it with:

Upon death 100% sigils drop without fiend. PvErs can walk to their body and loot them, PvPers can loot their enemy or teammate.

Upon death 50% drop 50% keep with fiend. PvErs will still have an incentive to go get their body and if their body gets bugged, at least they don’t lose all sigils and PvPers will have an incentive to farm fiend (potentially turning that vault into a pvp hotspot for private servers).

But again, we had a big discussion on this topic. Generally, we had troubles agreeing on a solution that would be perfectly balanced for every playstyle.


Honestly I was hoping all the sigils were a key to unlocking some new exciting content. Can only enter the tower dungeon (something vast, like under the volcano) when all sigils are equipped. I’m not as interested in trying to maintain hundreds of buffs. Why do I say hundreds? That is what happens over time in games.

weapon tinker buffs
weapon oils
T4 thrall creation buffs
Follower leveling perks
follower food buffs for leveling
Just keep adding and adding more and you have to keep spreadsheets on all the things needed to max character performance. “But new content is optional” you say? Not really. As the power boosts continue to grow, so does the new content. If you don’t keep up with all the buffs, completing content progressively gets harder.

It is a cycle games fall into and devs spend gobs of time upping power, then re-balancing. Spending effort on bugs and content would probably be more profitable in the long run.

I would say that this is a matter of getting used to it. At some point you don’t even think about it anymore, you know what you need to do and you just do it.

I agree but with the cooldown reduced to 10 min, we thought that they won’t stand there 24/7. What we were more concerned about was people walling it off. We thought that even if you don’t have the sigil, as long as you are winning more fights than losing, you should be able to have a healthy stock of sigils from looting your enemies because their sigils will be dropped instead of destroyed.

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Never underestimate the gankers :smiley:

They won’t stand there 24/7, but they will spend a lot more time than people like you and me would like to believe.

Oh, I know there will be a lot of griefing for this sigil. This is why we were trying to think of how to make it useful but not mandatory.

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@CodeMage Btw just tested, the hp drain while climbing iwth harpy doesn’t cancel your sated buff so you can keep climbing and healing from sated. It is very very op.