Healers need help! An idea to make them better without making them mandatory


#49

What if the damage bonus was not multiplicative but rather additive. I can understand there being aggro concerns specifically with burst on a model such as described (ie. double damage) but it could also be additive therefore in this example the dps would be dealing say 1000 more damage per hit while the tank would also be dealing 1000 more damage per hit this would generate no changes in the aggro table. What this value of extra damage is based on could be determined in a number of ways but would ultimately be tied to the 1 second gcd.


#50

Either one works, as long as there is a direct correlation between HP put in to damage added, so that the granularity of the healing numbers is retained.

The problem with a flat number would be that it might hit a point where a healer can put more points in than are ever taken out, rather than having the consumption go up with the power of the DPSer so it stays somewhat even throughout the power progression of the group.


#51

Healer or no healer, an average on-level tank has to dedicate 2-3 mitigation abilities to dampen the incoming damage. I’m okay with that, gives the tank something more to worry about. However, HP% based tank self-healing on top of that is way too powerful for healers to ever be relevant as healers. I can understand that OP’s suggestion arises from this realization. It’s also an acceptance of (in my opinion) broken design and an attempt at circumventing it rather than addressing it.

This change makes the act of healing more useful, but it transforms the healer role into a pseudo-DPS role. That’s the second acceptance of broken design: dungeon bosses have way too much health and you do need a 4th DPS in order to make dungeon runs not tedious. Instead of addressing that, you’re yielding to it and making the healer fill that 4th DPS role to fit in.

It’s not a bad suggestion, in that it would definitely make healers desirable. It just feels like a massive compromise rather than an actual solution.


#52

That seems backwards, and would require this damage to be coded differently, somehow, and might have a strange effect on parsing it all out. Healing aggro is already cut in half in this game, I believe. In any case, presuming doing this doesn’t muck it all up, it would prevent aggro issues.

This would definitely make blood DPS highly unwanted in any dungeon/raid scenario, because they either need to continuously be shielded, or they don’t get their damage bonus. It has to be changed to work with blood, or blood has to be changed. You can’t penalize blood users for increasing their damage output using the blood mechanic, which actually decreases their damage output with overcharge. I’d also say healers largely ignore blood DPS, because it is pointless to try and heal them, unless its a blood healer that can put a shield on them.

Well again, blood needs reworked to work with this. Blood shields do far less healing, but instead offer shielding, thus making a blood healer a poor choice for this overcharge mechanic since they would be building overcharge far slower.

That’s an interesting idea, but the numbers then have to reflect a net benefit to bringing a healer vs them going DPS.

You could possibly have it parcel out overcharge damage divide it evenly by the rest of the people in the team, but that requires the team model of overcharge, and the OP seems to want an individual model by virtue of restricting blood DPS when damaged.

Of course if it is precoded to not generate aggro it doesn’t matter how to divide it to prevent aggro issues.


#53

At this point changing the current meta is probably beyond funcom’s budget for SWL. And it is not a game where balance is really important, it doesn’t impact too much how you experience the story and in the end that’s the only thing that matters.


#54

Sad but true.


#55

Whilst im not sure if an overcharge part of healing would be a good idea or not, I do like the fact someone is suggesting a way to make a healer viable again without shouting for nurfs to other classes :slight_smile:


#56

i have never played a healer in here so i didn’t know about this. but if the game allows and even forces the classic tank/dps/healer party for dungeon queuing, telling someone who wants to play a healer to make his own private group doesn’t really solve the issue.
the game either stops asking for specific roles when in queue or all roles have to be needed for a dungeon to work, one of those 2 things have to happen.


#57

i have never played a healer in here so i didn’t know about this. but if the game allows and even forces the classic tank/dps/healer party for dungeon queuing, telling someone who wants to play a healer to make his own private group doesn’t really solve the issue.

No, of course not. But it’s the only thing that guarantees right now that healers won’t be harassed.

the game either stops asking for specific roles when in queue or all roles have to be needed for a dungeon to work, one of those 2 things have to happen.

This is why I said upthread maybe Group Finder should be be tinkered. I have little faith in Funcom to mull over and implement a new meta, especially in a timely manner. If that is the case, then perhaps it is more resource-efficient to look at the tools they already have in place and modify them as necessary?

That said, though, I agree with you.


#58

This is all futile. Sustain tanking just needs to be put down like a rabid dog and higher e-levels damage, threat and healing outputs adjusted but I lack the confidence for them to do that at this point.


#59

I have played a healer. And more and more I was not only asked but sometimes “adviced” to switch to DPS after I joined a dungeon group as healer.

Leveling up the healer gear took a lot of time (talismans and weapons for healing, additional glyphs and signets). And it feeled more and more like a big waste of time as I chose a role that is actually useless (I won’t level up this gear only for NY). Finally I cancelled my patron subscription. Maybe I will take a look in some month if anything changes or there is new content to play as single player.

But nevertheless I wish you all fun and a good time.


#60

We’re beating a dead horse here. The problem isn’t with healing or sustain tanking. The problem is the nature of most encounters being too simple. Nearly everything is a tank and spank with hardly any mechanics. It’s a fundamental issue with how the encounters are designed.


#61

Couldn’t agree more.
Used to be healer in TSW and continued to be same on SWL. But after I’ve seen what tanking is all about now, the healer role got a huge frustration factor attached to it.

I wanted to experiment a bit with the heal-abilities (not so much of choices sadly), joined some Dungeons but I didn’t get to test it, as every Tank I’ve met was straight up sustain tanking. Gave me all of the frustration possible.

Since Funcom is offering the healer-role in this game, just as DPS and Tank, they should do something about it. Either changing the sustain tank thing or the inc damage in general so the healer is needed and doesn’t feel like totally useless. Not every player (especially people picking the healer role) does know about the sustain meta, so when they enter a dungeon and getting asked to DPS (or buff bot) over and over, no matter when they join, they getting fed up with it. Surely some do adapt, but not everyone and it’s sad, for me as a healer with a passion, to see where this is going.
I’d not even say “put down the entire substain tanking”, it can remain, but make some changes about it, so every role gets its use in this game.

I found it quite shocking to hear “no one heals in a dungeon” so many times. Luckily my hubby is not always sustain tanking, so I can have a bit of a good healing time but honestly it’s just sad :<

Have a great one!

/Dav


#62

Been reading through this topic and it’s kinda interesting to me. I don’t see the level of ‘useless healer’ that people are referring to. In the last 50-odd dungeons I’ve done, I can think of only 2 times when it’s been suggested I go DPS, and about the same where I’ve not been told but have been stood around doing nothing. (Bear in mind, this is just my experience…I don’t doubt that some others in this topic have had it much more)

Now I absolutely believe that sustain tanking lessens the need for pure healing - and indeed, I don’t slot 6 healing abilities. But there’s so much that healers can do aside from adding more health back. Some people above have spoken negatively about the idea of healers being more used for buffs, but I like doing that.

I really see the role as a general support - essentially taking care of everything that gets in the way of tanks and DPS doing their roles to the best they can. That’s why I provide attack buffs, extra protection and barriers as well as restoring health and cleansing. If anything, I’d like to see more utilities as part of the healing weapons - but then again, that would only suit my style and probably wouldn’t work for everyone.

The initial idea from this topic is a pretty good one. Of course, mechanics would need to be worked out, but I would welcome the idea to further support the rest of the team. Only downside for me is that it would make Savagery completely irrelevant, but replacing that with something that, say, increases critical chance would make that up!


#63

I am glad I am not the only one that sees the healing issue in SWL

It is odd in SWL, shouting that since beta.

Well some ppl did use their grey mass and found a work around to play endgame Content even with odd healing in e8+

grats for them

but thats a workaround, and a workaround does not solve the issue! to say we dont need anything to change cus we have this workaround, is blind. It is still broken.

Fix healing, plz


#64

I am also new to the game, maybe 10 weeks now I think. I have heal weapons, fist and blood. Fist can be used to do dps or heal and I make use of both I have no problem swapping out some dps and heal skills depending on what me and my friend are fighting.

I get confused when I read issues around healing/dps/tanking. My personal opinion, healer is there to cleanse/heal if needed. I do not want people to take lots of damage so I can use my heal skills, I see a group running a dungeon as a team activity. All helping each other to get through it.

People work on upgrading gear, the higher level the gear gets the easier any dungeon will be, the less healing is needed. To me, less healing required is good it means the team/group is doing well. The fact that my heals are not needed very much is not going to chase me away from the game, I can apply as healer then adapt to what group needs.


#65

Your making statements like “less healing needed” the correct statement is absolutely no healing needed and in 99% of cases not even cleanse. Tank does all. This is not apparent until later in game though.


#66

Yes I say less healing because all people can make a mistake, not everyone is so well geared and not everyone, like me, is so good at avoiding things.


#67

:grin:When some groups speed run HR3, they stand in fire with a healer all the time to get rid of the trouble of moving platform . Just for tactically life quality improvement. Just like when people were not so over geared in e5 Polaris 3.


#68

for the dps i can see your point. Unless there running cruel delight.