@Taemien just wow. I gave you a recollection of an experience. The horses have too much up. Period. It’s a new gimmick. If you have bring your horse on a raid to get it to you into a kill pit too distract thralls it’s just a new gimmick. Teimos was the old gimmick. There’s no reason to turn this into nerd fest 23. Horses have too much hp. Your entire guard force can be smitten on account of a single horse. It ruins it, that is my opinion.

“A horse has too much hp because it has too much hp.”

That’s the statement that is being made here. Because lets face it, if someone brings a horse to distract your thralls, the hp isn’t going to matter on the horse, they could have 500hp and they’ll still do that function. If you want a HP nerf to be effective, then they need it nerfed to 0hp so they die on placement. Effectively deleting the horse.

If you’re online for the raid, box in the horse and you get a free pinata of mats or whatever they used to bring it.

Time is an important resource, and you’re disregarding it entirely here.

Here we go again. No. I’m saying the horse has too much hp (and the fact that for some reason it assumes the agro of all pets and thralls) because they just have way too much up. You can have 10 thralls hitting that horse and it has enough hp to survive long enough for the player(s) to casually kill all those thralls. It is an exploitable feature at this time. Everyone who knows what they’re doing does it. The same way they would use the old 20k hp beastmasters to do the same thing. But the problem back then was that it was still not that easy to “casually” kill all the thralls.

Besides I’ve already figured out a solution. Build a base so small that a horse doesn’t fit it.

You see… I’ve been talking about time for the entire conversation. But the OP’s response to time is:

So while I would love to talk about the time it takes to kill a horse and thus help repel raiders. No one actually wants to do it. Instead I’m supposed to accept that horses have too much HP BECAUSE they have too much HP. They just do, its dogma and heresy to think otherwise, it is infallible and unquestionable to suggest anything else.

So @SpherisCore since you’re opening this can of worms. How much time do YOU think the horse should die in? Give it too me in seconds or minutes. Cause no one else wants to do that. There seems to be a dreadful fear to engage in that. Like their false gods are going to smite them for even mentioning such things.

I said you’re disregarding time here in this specific comment, not in the whole thread.
Because that horse distracting thralls with 20k HP will distract for a good amount of time, while 500 HP will drop dead in 2-3 hits, which I don’t think is much of a distraction.

That’s all I had to say really :thonk:


Edit: It’s like with the recent changes where the mobs do more damage…
Okay sure they deal more damage, but they drop dead before they actually have any time to deal damage.
Good example is the Corrupted Wolf, which used to be tanky and hit hard, but now it dies in 2-3 hits and doesn’t have time to bite you.

→ Going back to the Horse distraction thingy, if it drops dead in 2-3 hits, it will not have time to be a distraction. That’s all I was saying :thinkup:

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instead of nerfing horses again, why not make mobs and thralls not aggro on the horses when the rider is not mounted.

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I disregarded it because whenever I brought it up, everyone acted like vampires reacting to a crucifix and just hissed in response.

I going to give the benefit of the doubt, since I don’t believe you’re trying to be unreasonable here, and try to see if we can discuss this from a different angle. Let’s try to agree on something, common ground if it were.

A horse running around with things chasing it is an annoying problem, yes?

I said things and not thralls, because I do mean everything here. Thralls, npcs, animals, what have you. I’ve seen complaints about this before from not just PVPers but also PVEers who are trying to engage say a thrall camp or area clearing to a boss and they have to chase enemies around.

So looking at that broad problem. Is reducing the health going to actually help? When I said reduce a horse’s hp to 500 wouldn’t make a difference, it was being facetious but it wasn’t wrong. If you have a dozen thralls chasing a horse that goes down in 2-3 hits, you need to LAND 2-3 hits to kill it. Thralls are pretty dumb about as dumb as any NPC or animal and it can take a lot of TIME do land those hits in. Players are a little better, but if you reduce the health, they’re just going to bring more horses.

Instead, why not change the component (or potentially the bug) that causes everything to prioritize horses? If this was fixed and a raider jumped in with their horse and the thralls prioritized them, then trying this tactic would result in the entire base’s thralls focusing on him. Which is what everyone here wants to happen.

Not to mention other use cases such as non-raiding PVP (world PVP) and PVE are unaffected and even IMPROVED. That’s a win win for everyone.

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Why is the horse initiating the level of aggro that a thrall or the enemy player does anyways? Due to perk irritate, the level of aggro can be adjusted and therefore just lower the aggro of the horse so that any thralls or players near would take the heat and only if they are gone, does the horse get targeted. Set the HP as 2000+100/vit and we can all call it day. Horses have sizeable HP, doesn’t cause distractions in combat, but they can be taken down in reasonable amounts of time if you need to (if they are DP mules).

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That’s true, regardless of whether horse vaulting Dragon Powder in PvP is a problem or not :eye:

The greatest mistake is that horses have inventory. If the inventory was in the saddle and the attacker could steal the saddle, no pvp player would attempt to kill a horse (except @Kilix he hate horses lol).
Alex years ago when they speak in Livestream promised saddles with greater inventory. I am still waiting, neither Scott, neither Dennis ever speak about it.

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Sadly, horses don’t even have the option for an irritate perk. I remember double checking after looking at this topic and going, “wtf? So why are they targeting my horse BEFORE anything else???” It makes no sense and that’s what I’ve been saying on this topic for a while now. It’s like… beating a dead horse? :smirk: Horses shouldn’t be taking aggro at all.

I don’t think its the irritate perk. The issue seemed to be there before the perk was added, and I see it without any points in Authority.

nevermind.

I think both of you are missing the point. The irritate perk proves out that aggro is variable and therefore making a horse less likely to aggro opponents should be relatively easy to do. They could set it at 0.2 of what the normal aggro is and all enemies would target others unless there are no other enemies to target and then go after the horse.

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Yeah, I’m not missing anything though. I agree it should be adjusted for horses. I only mentioned that it’s not even an option for horses in its current version. They haven’t given us any option other than what the system deems is default aggro for horses. It should absolutely be adjusted and this is exactly what I’ve been saying since i started posting in this topic. There’s no reason for horses to be targets for AI. All it does is mess everything up in the long run. PvPers are forced to have their thralls aggro on something stupid RATHER than the players themselves. PvEers are stuck chasing NPCs that are also chasing their horses… like a Scooby Doo cartoon. It’s just plain ridiculous. No one likes it. Is it an improvement from when your horse tried to fight? Sure. Does it still need to be fixed more? Absolutely. I shouldn’t be sending my thrall in to attack an enemy and the enemy runs right by them and attacks my horse instead.

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I’d have to look into it, but I think the way the irritate perk works is when its active, everytime the follower deals damage, it goes to the top of the list. If its even that complex.

Threat in CE is a bit finicky. Without irritate, a follower does better dealing damage more often than dealing large amount of damage (or DPS) to hold agro. This is why a while back I’d recommend venom infused weapons for thralls if you wanted them to tank. Or to use something similar yourself if you wanted to tank yourself.

That obviously changed with irritate. I mean its still quite effective with it, but isn’t exactly needed.

Horses drawing attention in the way they do is way off the normal mechanics, hence why I think its a bug. There’s something causing them to be prioritized, but they immediately lose it when something else does even a single point of damage. I don’t believe its a simple setting that can just be toggled.

This. And the solution isn’t for that enemy to kill the horse in a few seconds either.

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As is multiple other “normal features” like offlining and killing bad AI thralls. At least the high HP benefits all facets, pvoe, raider, and defender in this situation

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The irritate perk helps, and I’m fine with a horse that circles the area while being chased.

The priority of horses happen when it is closer to the target than your players. That is upon first strike.

But, there are still the options for the horse to attack and skip the chase.