How to fix goomba build

Cattibria · 2023-04-25T15:52:54.623Z

It is a Steam achievement, “Tower of the Elephant,” so I highly doubt that it will be removed from the game.

Kilix · 2023-04-25T15:55:01.907Z

Just remove/change the achievement. Because this got to be the lamest reason to keep an unfair/easy-to-abuse frustrating mechanic in the game

Kikigirl · 2023-04-25T16:25:24.760Z

If other games can remove features so can they.

I still have special stickers in OW that no one can get now because they changed the process.

Xevyr · 2023-04-25T16:52:46.312Z

Kilix:

Better solution.

Again… a better solution was already proposed by me… (and some other good ones by others too).
The idea is to avoid a silly destructive approach… so no… to solve the problem you do not need to disable double-jump… you do not need to remove the achievement… you do not need to do anything that involves removing anything from the game…

You need to set a minimum distance of 2-3 foundations which will completely negate utilizing this as an offensive weapon The entire mechanic is still preserved along with everything else… and the builders of the defending base who are on a farming build can still use this… but it’s gonna be situational and not worth speccing into as an offensive cheese build…

Kilix · 2023-04-26T06:50:23.031Z

Listen, I’m not one of those who likes to advocate for removal of things from games. But this specific mechanic simply doesn’t have any value. You can’t use it in PvE so that’s already a huge portion of playerbase completely excluded from using it entirely. And in PvP this mechanic is insanely toxic. Don’t forget that when you die in PvP you lose everything you have. You’ve spent an entire hour gathering a couple of dozens of different types of resources to craft yourself epic set of gear, weapons, potions, casting equipment, arrows, antidotes etc? Well, here is naked guy with 5k stone in his inventory killing you instantly and taking everything without going through the effort of actually defeating you in combat.

This mechanic is worthless and it needs to go. Completely. Not changed, not made more difficult to pull off. Nothing. The reason why I’m against your solution too is because I simply don’t believe Funcom can do a good job making it work. They’re not good at complex coding where one ability does different things depending on such factors as distance, height and such. Remember the agility perk that halved your damage from fall damage, before they reworked attributed? Do you know that it only worked 2 times out of 3?
Do you remember the vitality perk that prolonged your underwater breath? Yes. It also didn’t always work.
What I try to say is that if they’d go with your solution it will also only work half of the time. And that will only increase frustration when you’ll be the one on the receiving end of it

SirDaveWolf · 2023-04-26T08:16:32.888Z

Add the fact when you or a teammate is moving stuff in your base (PvP bases are sometimes TIGHT AND PACKED) and accidentally steps on your head. We actually lost a trebuchet raid because of this crappy feature once, where a clanmate accidentally stepped on the head of our guy who was planned to use the trebuchet.

Also given the fact that the coding for it is wrong as well, as you can see in this video:

Just annoying. Not even funny anymore. Yes, I was laughing in that video, but only because how bad Funcom is at coding and QA.

The proposed solution from @Xevyr is enough though to prevent stuff from this to happen. Yet I still think this “feature” is unnecessary. And I don’t believe Funcom is capable to implement it correctly… I don’t trust them anymore.

Dzonatas · 2023-04-26T09:22:22.306Z

Kilix:

Well, here is naked guy with 5k stone in his inventory killing you instantly and taking everything without going through the effort of actually defeating you in combat.

True. I’ve seen one player get crushed because he climbed faster then the player up ahead of him on a wall.

Cattibria:

I highly doubt that it will be removed from the game.

And, there is the problem in a nutshell. I’m not saying it should go, but I am saying it must change because of how easy it is to raid. Too easy. Raiders don’t even suit up and fight anymore. It’s also broke trying to get my own thralls to fight when raided. It’s a bug disguised as an exploit. Stop thinking I’m trying to exploit an exploit. Sheesh peeps.

Xevyr · 2023-04-26T16:04:51.316Z

Kilix:

This mechanic is worthless and it needs to go. Completely. Not changed, not made more difficult to pull off. Nothing.

I’m pretty sure this mechanic will stay until the end of time so I don’t really think that’s on the table for you…
To clarify though, I am really not against removing it as at least this suggestion is targeted for this mechanic in isolation and isn’t targeting an otherwise unrelated mechanic that’s merely making it worse (like suggestions to remove double-jump), I just don’t think that Funcom will ever remove this as they have their achievement and it’s kind of a “thing” now… idk

Kilix:

The reason why I’m against your solution too is because I simply don’t believe Funcom can do a good job making it work. They’re not good at complex coding where one ability does different things depending on such factors as distance, height and such.

I knew this would be one of the the primary arguments people would throw against it… There seems to be a trend on these forums of people “imagining” how hard is a particular thing to code (without any actual research done) and then twisting and “shortcutting” suggestions based on that… The typical idea they seem to follow is that “this must be hard to code so let’s throw out something semi-related that is otherwise working as intended in a destructive manner, because that must be easier”
(not necessarily referring to you here as your suggestion to target goomba stomp directly doesn’t fit here, just generalizing of how people very often react to these types of suggestions when they think it’s somehow complicated)

Which is why in my original suggestion I took the liberty of coding it myself and making a demonstration video… and it takes a grand total of 5 minutes to code it FYI…
Here you go:

Proposal for Goomba stomping / Crushing people in PvP Feedback

Hey there everyone and @Community There have been many threads popping up on the forums regarding the issue with this mechanic in PvP. People don’t seem to overly enjoy being crushed to death instantly by others double-jumping on their heads. (understandably) I have seen a lot of really destructive suggestions regarding this and even though I also added my suggestion to those threads, it’s kind of getting lost there. So I decided to take initiative and make this thread, before we end up with…

SirDaveWolf:

as you can see in this video:

That’s actually funny

Ethel · 2023-04-26T16:58:49.273Z

i would suggest instead of removing entirely, greatly increase the stamina cost of the double jump while over encumbered that is increased by the amount of over-weight

so you are punished for jumping over and over like a maniac and left you vulnerable to an attack.

people cried that horse were OP because it wasn’t ground combat, and now that is ground combat people instead of fighting with weapons as the game intended, are playing mario bros
i would admit that is funny the first time and the 10th time, but after that the combat becomes tedius.

Xevyr · 2023-04-26T17:02:17.483Z

See what I mean?

Literally right after I point out how people come up with all sorts of ridiculous unrelated “solutions”… somebody comes up with a ridiculous unrelated solution most likely without reading any of the thread except the title…

Ethel · 2023-04-26T17:10:28.556Z

i read your solution, im not really agaisnt it. and i agree that is probably the best one.

But we are throwing ideas here just in case yours or other ideas cannot be implemented for whatever reason.

Personally i think is pretty funny how people cried so much to nerf horses so we can have fights on ground, and then the fight on ground is trying to jump over people head xD
10/10 gameplay would play again.

Xevyr · 2023-04-26T17:23:10.836Z

Ethel:

But we are throwing ideas here just in case yours or other ideas cannot be implemented for whatever reason.

I understand that and I did not mean to offend, so sorry if it comes across like that

I was trying to highlight an important concept though, which is something that seems to somehow elude the players of this particular game and I just don’t understand it

I am talking about focusing on the actual problem in a simple way. It’s like, everybody is trying to figure out how to workaround and alter other things, EXCEPT the actual problematic area.

I’d argue that it’s part of the reason we are where we are today, because they’re confusing the hell out of Funcom as well… you know… they have rare moments when they listen to players and then they make some changes along those lines.

What I’m talking about here ofc is this:

"If the windshield of my car is broken and I cannot see the road… the solution is NOT to install a forward facing mirror on the side of the car… or a camera on the front… the solution is to replace the windshield "

Similarly, sticking with the car analogy… "If I’m wearing clunky clown shoes and I cannot press the break pedal… the solution isn’t to redesign my car and space the pedals apart… it’s to wear different shoes for driving "

You get the idea, right?

If the goomba stomp is the issue, let’s look at that mechanic first and only if we can’t do anything about that move on to other proxy systems like double jump or encumbrance.

If the server lag is making daggers more viable due to target lock unilaterally protecting against the lag effects others are having… then the first goal would be to eliminate the server lag… only if it can’t be done look at maybe target lock in PvP… and only as a very last resort mess with the damage numbers on the daggers that are otherwise okay in a lag-free environment…

If bows are oneshotting people and normally they would wear heavy armor to protect against it, but they can’t since the bow has high penetration due to perks that aren’t really supposed to affect it… then the solution isn’t to reduce the damage numbers, but to look at why are those perks applying and taking away their natural intended defense…

And so on… basically the idea is to look at the root of the problem and then go outwards from there and not the other way around. Might be that these changes are still needed afterwards… who knows… but they shouldn’t be the ones we jump to initially.

Dzonatas · 2023-04-26T21:20:29.246Z

Just need to fix the hitbox on double jump.

Okay, 2-3 foundations away, in any direction, right?

Xevyr · 2023-04-26T22:57:16.033Z

What do you mean any direction? Ofc not… only vertically, we’re talking about falling on somebody there’s only one direction to fall…

Taemien · 2023-04-26T23:48:40.323Z

If you’re sober.

Dzonatas · 2023-04-27T10:26:29.933Z

Nah, the topic is about goomba, which can happen from more than one direction. I know because I’ve been chased by a naked over encumbered goomaba raider. Make that three of them, one from that direction, and that direction, and that direction…

It can be fixed, fully without needing to delete the achievement.

Xevyr · 2023-04-27T13:41:24.844Z

No, it cannot happen if they do what I suggested above.

Currently the reason it “looks like” it can happen is that every single time your character enters a falling state and then stops falling, it checks what it touched and if it’s a player and you’re overencumbered then it kills them.
It might not look like much on screen, but that “falling” state can happen even for a single frame, @SirDaveWolf 's video actually demonstrates that with the ceiling as he lets go, the character starts falling and it doesn’t actually fall very long since there’s no room, but it’s enough to kill the people.

Notice that this has absolutely nothing to do with a player’s head… as a hit location is not checked, only whether the player is (partly) under you or not.

If you put a minimum HEIGHT condition like I have done so in the video I linked in the other thread (I’ll link it here too below), then that automatically eliminates any sort of partial small jump like what you have in @SirDaveWolf 's video as well.

The video here demonstrates that, otherwise the character would’ve died instantly as I started jumping on its head

Dzonatas · 2023-04-27T13:47:46.805Z

Xevyr:

it checks what it touched and if it’s a player and you’re overencumbered then it kills them

Saw that tried, and no it doesn’t happen that way. If the player underneath is heavier, there is no crush. No jump needed, as continually jumping on the head of the player with greater encumbrance does nothing.

Xevyr · 2023-04-27T14:04:32.089Z

No… it’s just not only your encumbrance that matters.
You need to be heavier than 7x the target’s max encumbrance capacity to kill them, so the more points they have in Expertise, the more stuff you need in your inventory to kill them.

SirDaveWolf · 2023-04-27T14:09:26.189Z

Xevyr:

@SirDaveWolf 's video actually demonstrates that with the ceiling as he lets go, the character starts falling and it doesn’t actually fall very long since there’s no room, but it’s enough to kill the people.

Notice that this has absolutely nothing to do with a player’s head… as a hit location is not checked, only whether the player is (partly) under you or not.

If you put a minimum HEIGHT condition like I have done so in the video I linked in the other thread (I’ll link it here too below), then that automatically eliminates any sort of partial small jump like what you have in @SirDaveWolf 's video as well.

Yes your solution would fix the issue I showed as well.