# I start to think daggers might be op **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093 "2022-02-10T07:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/44 "2022-02-12T14:30:29Z")
Yes, but spears is the best allround weapon you can use in PVP. If there is a teamfight against 2 teams. You will have your focus on 1 target, people using spears to avoid hitting your teammates. If you go with sword when all other members of your team is on that target you will do as much damage to your team as you do on your enemy (atleast the risk is higher to hit friendly players with sword than with spear). Spears is also good for chasing down people, and since this game became a running simulator after the healing nerfs, spears is the best weapon to use while hunting down enemies. ---
**Author:** ![LostBrythunian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/lostbrythunian/32/98171_2.png) [@LostBrythunian](https://forums.funcom.com/u/LostBrythunian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/45 "2022-02-12T15:56:59Z")
Perhaps it would be if it were on all attacks. But I think limited to the first is not quite sufficient. Perhaps scaling. The heavier the armour, the more attacks in series can benefit from Hyper-armour. At heavy, perhaps hyper armour for the first three attacks in series. I just find it mildly absurd that someone clonking around in full plate is being staggered by little wasp stings from a dagger. (Historically daggers were used to off enemies in plate, but that was after the fight had devolved to a grapple, and no way in the fester sphincter of Yog am I suggesting grapple mechanics for this game) Again, this is both a spitball and a pipe dream, as I don’t think it can be realistically implemented. ---
**Author:** ![LostBrythunian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/lostbrythunian/32/98171_2.png) [@LostBrythunian](https://forums.funcom.com/u/LostBrythunian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/47 "2022-02-12T15:59:11Z")
Hey now. That’s Feroxic Daggers thank you very much. And Coral is an animal, not a mineral. So technically they are bone daggers, not stone. ---
**Author:** ![Barnes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/barnes/32/100355_2.png) [@Barnes](https://forums.funcom.com/u/Barnes)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/48 "2022-02-12T18:25:09Z")
> [@LostBrythunian](#): > > I just find it mildly absurd that someone clonking around in full plate is being staggered by little wasp stings from a dagger. (Historically daggers were used to off enemies in plate, but that was after the fight had devolved to a grapple, and no way in the fester sphincter of Yog am I suggesting grapple mechanics for this game) A more developed combat system would make these encounters tink tink tink on the plate. I can buy a stagger from a whirling dagger (non-combo), but no damage at all unless the Pierce (armour pen) overcomes the base armour value. This would require a rework in the various systems. To be honest, I find punching people, grappling with them and potentially choking them out to be interesting combat elements in PvP. It would be great if we had a robust close combat system like in RDR2. It is pretty satisfying, even against NPCs. ---
**Author:** ![LostBrythunian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/lostbrythunian/32/98171_2.png) [@LostBrythunian](https://forums.funcom.com/u/LostBrythunian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/49 "2022-02-12T18:54:01Z")
Yeah. About that subdual damage. The steel truncheon, and most of the advanced truncheons in the game (Heavey Weight, Seth’s, reinforced) seem to be based on Bar Maces. I do not suggest anyone go looking for first hand experience on this matter, but I am fairly certain it’s not controversial to note, when one takes a bar mace to the skull, it does subdue. In that permanent, what is that gray stuff exposed to air now, sort of way. I would love an unarmed subdual option. Especially when my character’s fists and feet deal kill damage and a bar mace deals just take a nap damage. And while I personally enjoy grappling in games, I’m not certain adding it would be feasible. As for plinks, perhaps it’s a thing that could be looked at in regards to how the penetration values are assigned and work. I know there is a sorta formula, Maces and Hammers have the highest penetration, Axes don’t have Penetration, and everything else is stuck in the middle. But from what I have seen, Daggers tend to run at the higher end, significantly higher than Swords and Spears, just behind Greatswords. Not exactly how I would have assigned them… ---
**Author:** ![Dzonatas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/dzonatas/32/75511_2.png) [@Dzonatas](https://forums.funcom.com/u/Dzonatas)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 6:35am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/50 "2022-02-13T06:35:06Z")
> [@Rekt](#): > > increased dodge cost Somehow I feel heavy-builds are being are being oppressed while the enc-builds become part of the meta. Note that daggers were used to win the best speed runs. ---
**Author:** ![idjiit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/49beb7/32.png) [@idjiit](https://forums.funcom.com/u/idjiit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/51 "2022-02-13T07:45:56Z")
> [@Dzonatas](#): > > Note that daggers were used to win the best speed runs. They use stone daggers to kill a boss croc and whatever legendary they get from the chest for the rest. #1 is using 2h sword, #2 is using hammer. ---
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/52 "2022-02-13T14:44:14Z")
Yes, before the healing animations where the only option, people actually stayed and fight, tried to like u say trade the hits. Also made different playstyles available, you could play aggressive, defensive and or a little bit of both. Now is the only option to play defensive, because as soon you are under 50% hp, you will be in trouble against a decent team, so best option nowdays is run. Very fun PVP. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![idjiit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/49beb7/32.png) [@idjiit](https://forums.funcom.com/u/idjiit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/54 "2022-02-13T16:13:09Z")
People stayed to fight because they had 50 insta heals (technically 100 but you usually used both at once) on the hotbar. And people still ran. You just didn’t have to get much distance to heal so they just ran in circles around the enemy instead Never have I played a more drawn out and boring fighting game. ---
**Author:** ![TeleTesselator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/teletesselator/32/97270_2.png) [@TeleTesselator](https://forums.funcom.com/u/TeleTesselator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/55 "2022-02-13T19:40:54Z")
> [@idjiit](#): > > Never have I played a more drawn out and boring fighting game. ONLY if you’re a solo player. The two or three toughest bosses in the game go down in about 15 to 20 seconds with 2 players and a thrall each. With more than 2 players you have to rush in to even get a hit on them before they’re dust. And I kinda like the fact that it takes a long time as a solo. Although the 2 or 3 toughest bosses are a little ridiculous at between 10 and 20min. 🤪 For PVP it’s just the opposite tho and the enemy (or myself) dies too fast IMO. I can watch good players kill 4 or 5 guys in right around the 1min. mark. ---
**Author:** ![idjiit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/49beb7/32.png) [@idjiit](https://forums.funcom.com/u/idjiit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/56 "2022-02-13T22:29:14Z")
I was only talking about PVP. People used to die way too slow before they changed healing. For bosses I just let my thrall do the work while I browse the forum 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Firecrow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/firecrow/32/91611_2.png) [@Firecrow](https://forums.funcom.com/u/Firecrow)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/57 "2022-02-14T01:20:59Z")
> [@idjiit](#): > > People stayed to fight because they had 50 insta heals (technically 100 but you usually used both at once) on the hotbar. > > And people still ran. You just didn’t have to get much distance to heal so they just ran in circles around the enemy instead > > Never have I played a more drawn out and boring fighting game. Thank you, this is exactly how I remember it too. ---
**Author:** ![AxeIsAnnoying](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@AxeIsAnnoying](https://forums.funcom.com/u/AxeIsAnnoying)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/58 "2022-02-14T08:55:49Z")
The 50 strength perk used to be viable before the healing changes. Now it’s 50 VIT all the time. ---
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/59 "2022-02-14T11:00:22Z")
Healings that got cancelled yes. And tbh rather have people spamming heals instead of having a marathon as soon u gonna pvp. If they spam heals they will be out of heals pretty fast even if the stacks are 50. Add also that bleed and bandage was more balanced for a while wich made it faster most of the time also damage and attack animations speed (on some weapons) was alot higher since armor points where about 2-300 less than today. ---
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/60 "2022-02-14T11:02:45Z")
Ambrosia healing was more or less perfect except that it healed through damage. But healing speed and so on was perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Taemien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/taemien/32/2688_2.png) [@Taemien](https://forums.funcom.com/u/Taemien)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/61 "2022-02-14T11:23:51Z")
If people are running, follow them back to their base and blow in their front door. If they still want to run after that, take their stash. ---
**Author:** ![AxeIsAnnoying](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@AxeIsAnnoying](https://forums.funcom.com/u/AxeIsAnnoying)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/62 "2022-02-14T11:32:55Z")
> [@dorpie](#): > > even if the stacks are 50 Imagine the old food healing but only stacks of 10 allowed. Yes people would still hold reserve food in their inventory, but this requires user action. And food/herbal tea should weight more ofc. > [@dorpie](#): > > armor points where about 2-300 less than today. Yeah when light armor was below 60% damage reduction. Nowadays we have 70% in light 😝 > [@dorpie](#): > > Add also that bleed and bandage was more balanced OH YES. Bleed was so important. Made the bleed daggers and seasalt cutlass viable in PvP, just for the bleeding effect. Another weapon that was bad in damage but useful in utility: Hammer of the Whale. That stamina damage was situational and good. We always had 1 guy with this hammer for that extra stamina drain in 2019. But Funcom nerfed it. ---
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/63 "2022-02-14T12:00:45Z")
Yes good solution… not. PVP can happen outside of raidtimes too. Especially on private servers. ---
**Author:** ![dorpie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dorpie](https://forums.funcom.com/u/dorpie)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/64 "2022-02-14T12:02:57Z")
Yes, they nerf stuff rather than looking over the other options. If one weapon is obviously stronger try to buff other weapons not just by damage and armor pen, make the animations faster overall. ---
**Author:** ![Taemien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/funcom/user_avatar/forums.funcom.com/taemien/32/2688_2.png) [@Taemien](https://forums.funcom.com/u/Taemien)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093/65 "2022-02-14T18:29:41Z")
> [@dorpie](#): > > Yes good solution… not. PVP can happen outside of raidtimes too. Especially on private servers. 24/7 raid times fixes that. Timers are pretty much PVE with extra steps. [Previous page](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.funcom.com/t/i-start-to-think-daggers-might-be-op/188093.md?page=4)