Is necromancer better than demonologist in any aspect?

Did you fought he on unchained difficulty? He can trow slow effect, deals around 850 damage per sword strike(not sure if i remember correctly), can’t be hit by any CC that i’ve tried… And if you fail to click on altar by a lag or because you become knocked out and under a slow effec, so no chance to reach the altar in other side of mapt(not sure but apparently you have less time to click on altar on unchained difficulty), he will take 80% of your HP.

The rewards on my screenshot aren’t reward for normal mode. No non unchained dungeon gives 60. Imperial Insignias and this “blue” rarity collar

Forgotten City unchained can be done by any class in blue gear. BTDT. :wink:

The problem is. For necromancer i see tons of videos on YT of necro killing elite bosses and mobs or soloing unchained dungeons. With demo, i don’t know what i should do if i can’t hit the boss with any CC spells. Heimdall for example, i see tons of videos killing then with any class but not with demo.

I wanna learn how to play with demo. I see some demo with high gear and high archivment score, so is possible to play well with the class. I just don’t know what i an suppose to do in certain situations. Mainly the last “destiny” main quest, heimdall, some unchained dungeons and mobs who aren’t affected by my CC.

The idea of using no cast time spells and running is good but will take a long time do beat any mob. Probably is that strategy that most demo use. I can’t figure out any better way…

No, better in any aspect definitely not. They are differrent and perform differently, better or worst, according the situation. And in lot of cases, they perfom both very well.

First of all, there aren’t neither the necro an thed demo, but the necroS and the demoS cause build can change, even a lot, performances and way to fight, even when the differences can seem subtile (not all hybrid demo builds are the same). I play a no-pet (mainly nightfall) necro (rarely I switch to a pet build) and an hybrid demo (now, always the same build) relying on instant casts, wave of flame AA, a lot of CC, but even max range shockstrike.

In terms of max dps (total, highest shot and critical), expecially in spellweaving when u can do a sustained damage, yes, necro usually outperform a demo in an encounter. Then the necro can apply a greater number of weaknesses/damage over time (dot, ruins, etc) than a demo and can do mana drain.
From the other side, even if necro can have instant spells, his spells are usually slower and a demo can deliver very very fast a lot of damage in few seconds (with shock and hellfire stream instant, wave of flame + ring of fire for example), can hit and hit hard while running (his instant perform very well), has even more fast and reliable CC on single target (storm chain and fiery torment are fast and last enough) even if necro has a great arsenal of group CC (but slow to apply, except frost blast).
Talking about demo CC, then, detonation is a great group kb/damage spell, is far better than thunderclap and (if u have hellfire stream as instant) is even the fastest single-minion oneshot-spell you can have in a raid group.
Both classes kite very well if you are a good kiter, ofcourse, because one could even have the best build and gear, but skills come first.

At the end, in group/raid, in my opinion they perform both very well, even if a necro can provide a more solid dps.
In solo, in wild, well this is a matter of tastes, they are both strong, but a necro, even if well played, will never reach a demo as elegance fighting a crowd of mobs all togheter cause demo is essentially a fast fighter relying on burst damage, cc, speed and being always in movement. In this way, the class more similar, as feeling, is the assassin and both classes fight in a spectacular way.

There’s definitely no need to kite with demo, you simply have to understand the mechanics and play according to them.

For example, for the Grim Gray God quest, you need the buffs from the sarcophagi, and the white waves coming from the God will remove them, so if you get hit, you must go back to the corresponding sarcophagus to get them back.
So, yea, you have to fight elite mobs, but the buffs you get will make you “elite” too.

And the same is for all the bosses: Understand the mechanic, and it will be very easy with every class.

I agree. L0rdVictor if u can’t kill the Forgotten city boss with a demo (even a low geared and, yes, in unchained) is because you’re not enough experienced with this class or with that encounter, not cause a deficency of the demo class.

Thanks to @Kwalya, i searched a little and found what i was doing wrong. Underestimated the “instant” cast spells. In order to beat someone who can sustain more damage and deal more damage than you, you just need to avoid take damage and deal damage. Without hellgate, possession, etc(resist) I wasn’t able to find a good way to deal damage and avoid take damage as a demonologist. With instant damage spells, i probably can deal a good amount of damage without needing to stop moving.

Searched on old forum and

It is a real machinegun and at level 80 you have five instant casting damage spells!

As a level 80 necro you are not relying on your gear and AA’s much at all(except for survivibility ofc). The amount of damage you can put out by just putting your pets on a target and keeping your dots up is amazing

Source Necro or Demo ?


About necro, is this PvP guide updated? Necro PvP 101

I saw your demo and necro, they are both not very well geared. Take a look into the AH for 80 blue crafting necklaces and rings for a start, there are even better small pieces - shoulders etc. - for little silver, that can push you a lot. And from what I could see in the raidfinder, you are just a new player who is still learning and adapting to the game. Don’t overcomplicate things, concentrate on: movement, mechanics, debuffs and buffs on you and the boss, reading cast bars and understanding what you have to do in a certain sitiation.

In raidfinder raids try this: If you do not know what to do, do what everyone else does! If everyone hugs the boss - hug him too! If everyone runs away, do that too! If you can not see clearly what is going on, look for another demo/necro who seems to know what he is doing, and follow his lead. If you are standing somwehere alone, you are most certainly doing soemthing wrong.

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The PvP guide is very much up to date (nothing much has changed since) and it’s targeted towards group PvP.

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About the forgotten city boss: open the fight with chaotic blast, hellfire stream and shock. Just with these you will lower elemental protection of target doing damage. Then a main one (shockstrike, fire of gehenna or wave of flame), unholy hate if u have, again instant, 1 main and so on. The amount of time before the boss knockbacks you and run to the altar (you need to click before the end of the cast) is not always the same, but you can even go immediately in spellweave after an altar (and you have time to go out before the next altar run), cast “hand of doom” (your most important SW ability) giving you 100% critical chance, shot instant and wof. You will do it.

In general, when you gear your demo (but it’s the same for necro) your first stat is “critical rating” (enanches your chance to do critical hit) even more than magic damage and intelligence (dmg + elemental protection + mana/mana regen), then critical damage buff (+ bonus damage when u do a critical hit). Protection (elemental/holy/unholy) is ofc important in many cases, but you will set gear and AA according the encounter. Last but not least, hit rating. You will find a lot of people telling you 15% is enough for all. In my experience, more than 20% makes difference. Like for AA (where u get up to 5% to a specific spell damage or hate reduction) all those little percentages are prolly modifiers of more complex algorithms than just a bit more something.

I agree that both aren’t top geared, but disagree that gear is that important. For example, the same boss who i wasen’t able to take 50% of his health with my demonologist with faction rank 3 gear(isn’t top but isn’t bad), my necro defeated him naked. I only din’t removed some vanity items.

I tried to record the fight, but some lag spikes and the fact that i lost my summons and have a oppening to ressumon then wasen’t easy, made the fight not very interesting to see but is possible to play the game as a necro even if you don’t have any gear

I was polite - they are really crappy geared, they both have green items way below lvl 80, the accesoires and weapons are very very weak and lacking hit/crit/magicdmg. The faction gear you bought is not the best choice, I saw Scholars of Cheng-Ho which is the worst set for demo/necro, you better go for Scarlet Circle (max. dps) (you can mix in Brittle Blade for more hit if you are lacking it). For the demo you can go for intelligence and magic damage equally, for the necro if you have the choice always go for magic damage over intelligence (because int does push frost but not unholy magic damage).
At the trader look for the crafted (or any other good) blue lvl 80 rings and necklaces, they will cost you only a few gold, and will push you immensly. Also the green shoulders, wrists etc. that are not level 80 - there are blue items on the trader for only some silver coins.

You want to compare solo fights against random bosses, that is ok - but has no value in the question to compare the classes, and you can most definatly not judge if gear is important or not, depending on such random data.
You are right, at some stages of their progression the classes are very different in their gear dependency. But honestly, at the gear level your both toons are right now it pretty much does not matter if you strip them naked ;). Skill is of course a very important factor - and again, from what I saw so far you are just still learning. I said earlier class balance does not mean equally powerfull characters at every stage of the progression - and that goes for players, too. Obviously the necro with the pets is a very very newbie friendly class at the beginning, very forgiving in most solo encounters, you do not need that much movement or cast rotation or mainly anything. But its hard to really master at the end game and end gear. A demo needs way better movement, a good rotation from the beginning, and from my experience (although I am not very into mages) is way more gear dependend at the beginning. Th necro has lots of dots and minor damage sources, it does not matter if some of them miss or do not crit. A demo has some dots, but hheavily relys on big shots - if one of them does not hit or crit, well… Generally it is easier to perform well with a demo in the higher encounters (at similar gear level).

Bottom line: It is interesting to hear a newbies experience with the both classes. But don’t forget there is a lot you can not know yet, so general statements like “gear is not important” or “class x is better in any aspect than class y” are a little bit funny. Especially if you have not even seen the “any aspects” of the game. But it is of course totally fine if the playstile of the necro is more for you, taste differes, skill differes, that is way there are 12 classes and not only 4.

First, thanks for the int of go for magic damage instead of INT. Only one more question. What affects my pet DPS? About Cheng-Ho, i gor for “free”, from a guild member. My necro still recently lv 80. I have about 200k with scarlet circle and probably will take one month to reach 1kk. My demo in other hand have 700k and much better gear(not top gear)

But i never said that “gear is not important”, the second boss after you defeat the guardian and enter in the city can 2 HK me or one crit me if i an not wearing gear. Even a crap gear can increase a lot my survivability. When i said that necro is less gear dependent, i din’t said that gear don’t matter. My problem with demo is that some enemies can kill me very quickly and if i can’t prevent the damage using possession, detonation, gate of hell, etc, i don’t have much to do. Also, i found many guides(posted a couple) for necro. For demo, everyone here say “learn how to play”, but there are no guides and few people said what strategy they use against this enemies. Apparently there are a lot of enemies immune to every “CC” that i have as a demo and that is a really bad thing

Note that compared to another games, AoC is very little gear dependent(which doesn’t means that gears don’t matter)

You might want to check that intelligence on necro’s unholy dmg yourself. Don’t trust everything that is written in forums :slight_smile:

No need to tiptoe passivly-aggressivly around the subject, just say it if I said something wrong, and give the correct information.

And actually, I am wrong. Whenever comparing gear (mainly waepons) I open the bag on the right, and the stats on the left, switching the weapons in and out. And if you do that, and you put a pure int weapon in and take a pur magic damage weapon out, only cold, electric and fire benefit from the int, at un/holy in is not correctly calculated, but looks like int does not work for un/holy. If you completly close the window and open it again, it seems to calculate, I see that now. I did not know this happens for mages, too, as for melees with weapon damage.
When I saw un/holy not changing while switching weapons in the past I just conected this piece of information with the protection-thing (int/wis giving prot for different kinds). And I thought that was the reason why older necro gear has mainly magic damage, and demo gear int. Never quite understood why they even had different gear, and why that ended with T4.
Ou of curiousity, does someone know why?

I made a mistake, sorry for that.

Holy/unholy damage are both tied to the Wisdom stat.

Thanks. I was little skeptical about “magic damage”, but that makes a lot of more sense. That explains why my ice sorcerer pets deals much more damage than unholy pets. I was thinking that is mostly due resistances and that unholy resistance was more common but was wrong.

Anyway, where i can find a good demo guide(similarly to the necro guide that i’ve posted)? using instant cast spells helped, but demo still to hard for me.

well, to make it clear :
intelligence gives unholy damages to necros, and not to other mages, as much as it gives frost damages.
wisdom gives electrical damages to tos as much as it gives holy damages on a pom.

if those exceptions did not exist, demos and necros would not share the same gear in kithai/T3.5/T4/T6. same goes for poms and tos’s

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Cappa is right, not sure what I was thinking…

To be even more specific about the attribute misunderstanding. The information that wisdom gives holy/unholy magic damage and int gives fire/lightning/cold magic damage is wrong.

First of all attributes affect different classes differently. In this case, necros gain bonus magic damage (to all types) from int, while tos for example gain magic damage from wisdom. As a general rule of the thumb mages gain magic damage from int, while priests gain magic damage from wisdom (this is true for BS also).

The only class that could be confusing where they get their magic damage from would be DT and they get it from wisdom.