It's Nerf or Nothing

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Do you genuinely think that all of this we are going through, is/was the best possible option?

@Skillo No, I wish we have never had a single bug and everything we have reported would be fixed within 10 mins.

I wouldn’t want to leave anything untested, but that doesn’t necessarily follow from what I was saying.

Every testing program has limited time and limited resources, and I would be willing to bet the vast majority of them have multiple things to test. Depending on those limitations, it might or might not be possible to come up with a test plan that focuses on a single mechanic in one stage, then on a different mechanic in another, etc.

So yeah, they might not have been able to organize things that way due to limited time and resources. It’s certainly possible. It’s even possible that there was no better way they could have organized the closed beta, than the way they did.

Thing is, we’re never going to put that discussion to rest except by agreeing to disagree. Those of us who weren’t in the program have no information about how it worked. Those who did participate probably can’t share it, and even if they could, I wouldn’t ask them to put themselves in that situation.

Regardless of whether we agree on how they should have done things, the one indisputable fact is that they failed to catch some very serious problems. I believe that they should have done a better job.

Sure, but I was talking about a very specific issue here: the vault chests being empty. If that was one of the issues that couldn’t be solved easily and was intentionally punted into the Early Access, then all I can say is that Early Access doesn’t mean that they can’t communicate about known bugs.

EDIT: I want to make absolutely clear that this is not a personal attack or criticism of any of the players who participated in the closed beta.

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I said option, not miracles. And part of the issues are not bugs, but things forgotten/left behind/poorly implemented. Its very different. But i get what you mean, sorry it i offended you.

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@CodeMage I agree with you that a list of known issues and proper patch notes would help a lot. It is hard to report stuff if you don’t know if it is intended or not but if something doesn’t feel right, I do it anyway. It is also hard to test if you don’t know that something was adjusted. I know that it would make my life testing stuff and helping people easier.

People keep referring to closed beta but even now with thousands of people playing, there aren’t that many bug reports created (not talking about the stuff like my hair doesn’t look right and this flower is floating). A lot of what has been discussed is feedback on how certain mechanics and items should work. Beta testers have given a lot of feedback on various topics but even amongst us we had various heated discussions. It is not much different than what you all do right now.

There were server issues during beta as well. We even had a server wipe because of an issue with the storm that has now been corrected. We had also replication issues many of which were corrected. We had even the high ping issues which required multiple server restarts. The devs have a lot of data already and even more now that the map went live.

I am fairly certain that not all issues come as a surprise to them even though some may be worse than anticipated. We had a bunch of last min fixes based on TestLive reports and the devs have been working overtime for months but I guess for the more serious issues such as undermeshing/storm cheese/empty vault chests, they simply need more time.

P.S. I think we all agreed that fish traps and super grind for a low chance of T4s is not going to be well received. I also don’t quite understand why it takes so long to fix the glowing goop issue.

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Before I write anything else, I just want to thank you for sharing what you can and in a very positive and constructive way.

Maybe I haven’t been as attentive as I should be, but my impression is that most of the major bugs have been reported. And, to be honest, that’s much better than I expected. Regular players just don’t tend to report bugs a lot. Even though this is Early Access, I don’t expect it to generate bug reports – even with thousands of players – as easily and frequently as a closed, focused testing program.

That’s certainly valuable. I just wish Funcom had insisted a bit more on testing the nuts and bolts, too.

Thank you for sharing that. It’s really easy for people to slip from “Funcom didn’t test it enough” into “Funcom didn’t test it at all”, and this is a nice way to show that it wasn’t like that :slight_smile:

If it was just a matter of not being well received… Instead, the inadequate risk/reward proportion for summoned surges is causing some really toxic behavior, and the fish traps are making people spam like crazy, building virtually on top of each other and causing more bad blood between clans.

Maybe next time they’ll actually listen to unanimous feedback from the testers they selected…

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I remember seeing it in notes, and kinda just went… oh… ok… not sure why. I guess it beats saw sound overriding most of others.

grunt and odd sounds upon log in

OH GOD WHY!!! XD

Agree’d, Thou I think alot of users… just don’t think for extra 5 seconds before hitting send, and some just don’t seem to care how many times they hear “early access” or “community feedback”
I get some of feedback, agree with some of nerfs being to far down nerf path.

Thou… I’m on ps4. So my feedback doesnt matter on new stuff, I get to sit and spin waiting for it to show up and have abunch of choices made for me with little chance of any change.

I felt largely ignore during movement/roll discussions. =/

I think Funcom would enjoy abit more discussion on feed back… and not whole stone/poo throwing. XD

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Yeah, I decided to put that one mildly :face_with_hand_over_mouth: Risk vs Reward is something that has been discussed extensively and it continues being discussed. Just to give you an idea of a few major changes between beta and now which are within my area of expertise, I won’t go in details:

  • Rewards from bosses and vaults have been buffed. There are a lot more legendary kits now than before amongst other loot changes.
  • Resource locations rebalanced.
  • Wild surges now spawn armorer/blacksmith/alchemist not only cooks and tanners. There were a lot less surges per storm cycle as well.
  • The number of wild life reduced substantially, a bit too much for my liking but it was needed.
  • Leyshrine mechanics were very different when we started and a lot more conflict driven e.g. the shrine with most chaos would be the one to “win”. If you had too much chaos, you would get a calamity surge which was a way to grief others. A lot of adjustments were made to the summoned surges and I believe they are still work in progress.
  • A lot of mobs in the storm now drop unstable essence which gives 2x chaos. During beta the grind was much harder with most of the mobs dropping lesser essence instead. Both lesser and unstable essence were decaying as well and you were not able to store them in a preservation box if I remember correctly. If not mistaken, the storm was an hour and we weren’t swarmed the way we are swarmed now, at least not during the time when I was playing around with the storm. Since the grind was too much for me, I mostly focused on testing the surges rather than farming storm bosses and mobs. If I had to grind all my surges, I wouldn’t have done much testing.
  • We were offline raided as a “test” which was very upsetting for many but now we have some sort of offline protection in the works even if it is not quite ready yet. The CB server was a full PvP server with x1 rates.
  • Spoil rates / Crafting times were a hot topic.
  • Storm doesn’t wipe your base outside of the storm area :stuck_out_tongue: The siege monsters still one shot stuff but I don’t think this is intended.
  • The xp rates were different even though I can’t say that for an experienced player the levelling was hard.
  • The healing system was reworked a few times, which would explain why some items might have been missed. At some point there was no healing system at all :face_with_hand_over_mouth: Luckily, Funcom fixed that part fairly quickly.
  • The delving bench now has a lot higher % to get recipes. A way to dupe eldarium was fixed as well.
  • The vaults would refresh every 3h ±30 min. Now they refresh more often (105 min±30) which might be somehow related to the issue with the chests.

I know at least a few undermeshing spots that have been reported and addressed. I don’t want to talk about PvP and its testing because I am simply not the right person to talk about it. There are other testers who can speak more about this part if they wish so.

These are just some of the many changes done based on feedback.

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Holy crap! You know what? Forget everything I said, especially the bit about how I wish they had insisted more on testing the nuts and bolts.

From the stuff you listed there, it’s clear that you guys did a heroic job saving the rest of us from a complete and utter disaster. :grimacing:

EDIT: If there’s any doubt about it, what I wrote above was not sarcastic. I really meant it.

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Healing Water, was nerf’d alittle to hard, it should heal something like 50HP over 5sec, not because you need to heal. but because if you stub your toe on a rock you will break your leg and that little HP is nice to heal for free.
But healing on a horse with water was and is broken.

We are the QA team, just saying.

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I feel this is the solution to this thread hahah

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As far as I know there is only one, and I have several of those kantana.

Wow, ok, hmm, wow, uh… Like Codemage said, really glad you guys were there - horrifying to imagine the screams of anguish if the main player base had got our hands on some of that. (although, I suppose people can only claim ‘it’s broken’ ‘the game’s dead’, which they’re gonna do anyway so maybe less change than I’m thinking :wink: )

It also does bring me some worries (not just regarding this game) - why is it that game devs (who often don’t play their game or any other) seem to think infinite grind for no reward is a good design? Surely just on a simple mathematical basis some of these ideas should never have made it into the test game (if it takes a player X minutes to obtain one ???, and they need 500 for a small chance at a t4, will they play?).

That said - this also does give me considerably less worry regarding Funcom. Here I have clear evidence that they do listen to players’ concerns - maybe they don’t always agree, or (IMO) don’t always get it right, but at least they’re listening. That for me is by far the most important thing (well, and communication, but I’ve written elsewhere about why I think that’s not as simple as we sometimes think it should be). (I used to play another game, where the devs got into a sort of arms race with the players, and they made quite clear they weren’t listening to the players - laughter being the frequent response to polite requests - not a game I’ll be going back to…)

Doh!

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@DanQuixote Thank you for saying that. I am sure that we could have done a better job and there are things we missed or should have tested more extensively. However, I still feel that a lot has been done and the map is in a better state than before. I am fully aware that there are some serious problems still to be addressed related to FLS, undermeshing, storm and some systems to be balanced (e.g. pvp on horses) but I am hoping that it won’t be long before we see some improvement.

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The health system now sux, bosses we took down before, now we cant with out running away and healing.

Armor does not protect like it did.

Which ones? Not looking to argue, I just wanna be forewarned when I go back to Exiled Lands.

Must admit, I hadn’t noticed that. The boss fights I’ve done recently seemed much the same as before. That said, there’s plenty of bosses I haven’t fought recently, so we may well be talking about different ones. It also might be differences in preferred fighting style/armour - I tend to prefer medium armour so I can move more, but that does mean I usually have to do a bit of mid-fight healing, so it’s not much change now - I just have a bit of a ‘panicky’ moment while I’m drinking the potion, rather than continuing to move at full-speed as I did with the aloe soup…

Try Exotic Feast. It heals 21HP/3 seconds

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