Lets face it isle of siptah is a disaster

Even if hours or Steam achievements had anything to do with your skill – and they don’t, really – people weren’t flagging you because of that. I can’t speak for the person that flagged you, but I know why I would’ve flagged you myself, and it’s because I’m really tired of this whole baseless and unfounded trope that people are getting banned for constructive criticism of the game, because “the devs have fragile egos”.

You’ll notice that the first post in this thread didn’t get flagged. At all. It’s mostly frustrated venting, not a lot of constructive feedback, but it didn’t get flagged. If the mods and the community “white knights” were a bunch of draconian censors as implied in your accusations, would any post like that be allowed to stand?

Sure, the flagging system gets abused from time to time. I’ve seen it myself. People will sometimes flag things they disagree with. I’ve even seen examples of “revenge flagging”, where the person who got flagged will go and flag random posts by the person they suspect flagged them. By all means, it’s not a perfect system.

Thing is, flagging doesn’t really remove posts or shut down threads. It hides the text behind one click, and I don’t know anybody who doesn’t click to see what was hidden anyway. From what I’ve seen, what gets removed and shut down are:

  • profanity-laced rants, because it costs you nothing to vent in a way that doesn’t involve cussing everyone out
  • personal attacks and insults, because you can just as easily criticize someone’s work or their arguments without calling them names
  • naming-and-shaming players, clans or servers, because forums are not a place for witch hunts and lynch mobs
  • threads where too many posts have been flagged in a certain amount of time, because it’s usually a sign that the thread isn’t going anywhere

None of the above should be a big surprise or, indeed, anything novel or unreasonable. It’s what we teach kids when they’re growing up. You can’t just stand up at school, at the university, or at the office, and cuss everyone out, or call them names, or be gratuitously rude, at least not without some consequences. And yet, anyone who wants that to be the case on the forums is labeled a “white knight”, a “community wannabe”, or a similar droll little name that hides a personal attack behind virtue signalling.

So yeah, kudos to whomever flagged you for perpetuating that!

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yeah man i really cussed out anyone in my posts that were flagged. At least before you comment read the comments that are flagged. This entire forum system is ripe with abuse in this game and world of warcraft which also uses this system. You can agree or disagree flagging peoples opinions is ridiculous period unless its cussing someone out or making racist statements etc. Again if you are sensitive enough to hide people’s posts that speaks volumes about you as a person period. That basically says let me hide others posts who do not agree with me.

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I disagree with the way you express yourself not with your idea :slight_smile: Try toning the insults down a bit and you might be surprised by the results.

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That’s ironic, because it’s obvious you didn’t read my post before replying to it. Here, let me quote it and add emphasis to the parts you missed:

And then I proceeded to list the things that get removed and/or result in topics being closed.

To use your own words, if cussing and racism is where you draw the line between civil and uncivil discussion, then that speaks volumes about you as a person, period.

How about telling someone to “get therapy”, or calling a whole group of players “trash and garbage”, or calling someone “a big baby”, or calling someone “the worst boyfriend”? Those are just a few examples of personal attacks I’ve actually seen on these forums.

It’s not about disagreeing. It’s about how you disagree. Again, this should not be controversial.

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I have found in my time here there are 3 so called regulars on this forum that tend to flag most critical posts and 2 of those people are currently participating in this thread, and no there is rarely any cursing or anything vulgar involved just criticism and mostly justified. Last I heard this was a General discussion forum who says anything nevermind everything posted here has to be constructive?

Plus I wouldn’t worry about being flagged it literally makes people want to read it even more, which makes me chuckle every time they do it. :joy:

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I have a B.A in Psychology (lame appeal to authority for what i’m about to say lol) …and yes… it does the opposite of what is intended. See studies on rubber necking at accidents. hah.

I feel people are way to protective and senstive of both Funcom and addressing the negativity of features of the game/brand itself. Having a place to vent is healthy, its important to listen to other sides of a position to better understand your own (otherwise we have the same effects Facebook, Twitter etc have where you have an echo chamber of self selected confirmation bias).

I personally for example and very vocal on my position that I feel Funcom aren’t doing enough to protect the brand and game more both in cheating and community support. I have little or no issue with game features being imbalanced, crafting station sizes etc. I can honestly accept these as a work in progress over time - given game balance mechanics aren’t an easy thing to resolve. However, not being respected as an audience, being told “read this rule here” and not being able to cite where the rules are being broken beyond vague “links” …it just makes me personally push back harder to say “Nope, i don’t accept this behaviour anymore, do better”.

In the end even some of the most negative comments have one thing underpinning their actions - “We want the game to be successful with more players”.

Our pathways to getting that is where we via the forums seem to splinter apart.

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I have 2 suspensions under my belt trying to make that exact point but much less eloquently, thank you.

P.S. The parks and recreation meme may have had a part in one of them…oops!:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Flagged posts are hidden from the latest topics list (i think), so its somewhat useful.

As for flagged comments, i agree, don’t really know what is the point of it aside from making you click and find out why it was flagged lol.

You do know the Chinese own Funcom now right?

i said i was not going to reply but I really think you are actually missing the point of this as you keep talking about flagging in a different way than myself and others keep talking about. Also you keep mentioning me not being civil when I replied originally to a girl who was worried she would get flagged for speaking the truth and not the original poster. When I speak about flagged I am speaking on the system of hiding posts because someone does not like what you are saying or being critical of. If you think thats not the case of whats going on here you can have your opinion but its naive to think honestly. I see your posts here also , you are a serious white knight and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that either , but you also have to understand people here (including myself) think funcom is not doing nearly enough to address issues that been around for a very long time while spending development time on critical issues only and releasing new content to make money. Its not a conspiracy theory that its a business here - they have to make money. They also need to learn to strike a balance though with polish and fixing issues that been plaguing the game since early access. I really do not think thats all that much to ask man do you really think it is?

And this thinking right here is why I say people like you have it totally wrong about Funcom. For example take the under-meshing issue. That is NOT a trivial problem to solve. It is a problem in a lot of games, even Ark had this problem. In fact a problem like that is something most CS people I have met simply do not have the background needed to solve it.

So what is Funcom supposed to do? Stop ALL other aspects of development of the game until all bugs are fixed? Is the art team just supposed to be on standby? For example people constantly complained about all the DLCs Funcom released. That sort of content is easy to crank out and typically done by artists with no coding background at all. So what do you want them to do? Have the artists sit on @ass and do nothing until the coders bang out fixes for all bugs?

So those of us that get accused of beng “white knights” are not in my opinion white knights. I think we just have more reasonable expectations, are not incessant whiners and complainers, and/or have experience actually working in software development and know what’s up.

Apologies in advance for addressing parts of your reply in a different order from the one in which they were written. I’m doing that just to frame my thoughts more clearly.

Actually, up until this reply I’m writing now, I haven’t accused you of being uncivil. The closest I came to that was when I said that I’m glad you got flagged for perpetuating the trope about “people getting banned for speaking the truth constructively”.

I’ve never seen anyone get banned just for criticizing Funcom. Hell, I haven’t even seen bans for several people who have written some seriously toxic stuff. The only forum bans I’ve ever seen were dealt out to people who kept insisting on breaking the forum rules egregiously and repeatedly.

Yes, and I acknowledged that there’s flagging abuse. For what it’s worth, I think it’s a serious mistake to have “regulars”, myself included, have the power to hide the post with just one flag. It takes multiple flags from non-regulars to hide a post and I think that this is how it should be for everyone.

Again, none of that means that people are getting banned for criticizing Funcom, or that topics and posts are getting removed to “protect the devs’ fragile egos” or any of that FUD people keep repeating here.

Not at all. I never said that it’s too much to ask, although I might disagree on where that balance actually lies. As a matter of fact, I saw you post a coherent, well-worded, calm and polite critique in a different topic. And I agree with it. There are tons of problems that need to be fixed. There are balancing decisions by Funcom that I disagree with wholeheartedly. There are features that have been poorly thought out and implement haphazardly, and I would love to see them improved.

None of that is the problem I’ve been talking about in this thread and some others. People are welcome to disagree with Funcom and with each other, to discuss and criticize, to offer feedback, or even to vent their frustrations. But they can do it just as well without crossing certain lines that degrade the experience for everyone on these forums.

And I’m not even going to ask whether you think that’s all that much to ask, because I know the answer. Making these points has earned me all sorts of name-calling, from “white knight” to “wannabe Chosen of Asura” to my personal favorite: “fanboy getting orgasms from new style sets”. You can’t make this stuff up.

See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s the mildest name I’ve been called, but it’s still name-calling. And what for? Here’s some of the “white knighting” I’ve done recently:

  • I’ve argued against a guy who accused me of “propping up status quo” because I dare explain to people how to properly report server rule infractions. Never mind that I almost always caution those same people that they shouldn’t expect a quick response or any transparency about the outcome. Never mind that I’ve often said that using the forums for that (and for bug reports, while we’re at it) is a bad way to do things.
  • I said it’s unreasonable to criticize Funcom for replying that a bug has already been reported and they’re aware of it. And I said it’s even more unreasonable to compare Conan Exiles to Visual Studio. One is a game that isn’t even all that popular, the other is a whole freaking toolchain that is used to build a crapton of software out there. I mean, come on, is that really so controversial?
  • Someone claimed that all the effort that went into Siptah and the upcoming economy patch is just a hobby and doesn’t take up a lot of development time, and I asked them to provide their reasoning about that claim.
  • I said that Funcom was right to ban people who decided to cheese the Maelstrom after they were told that cheesing the Maelstrom will screw up the server performance for everyone and even crash it. I’ve literally seen people say “don’t care, gonna do it anyway”. Apparently, it’s white knighting to think that knowingly choosing to ruin everyone’s experience on a server should have consequences.

But none of that is the worst, apparently. My crowning achievement as a white knight is that I argue with people about name calling on forums. That, more than anything else, makes me a white knight, because I use words like “ad hominem” and point out that you can argue without crapping on other people. :man_shrugging:

And the funny thing is that I’m quite critical of Funcom, too. When they announced the follower cap, I was one of the most vocal critics of it. When they introduced momentum-based movement, I kept complaining about how controlling your character feels like trying to steer a dead ox. I have been complaining about the slot machine gameplay of Conan Exiles for months.

But these forums have gone the way of real-life politics: you can’t have a nuanced opinion. You’re either for or against. You’re either a “wannabe Chosen of Asura” or a “Funcom-basher”. If you don’t like what Funcom did with one thing, you should call the devs incompetent and say that the upcoming changes are trash and garbage and sh*t.

At any rate, I’m done with this particular line of discussion in this particular topic. By now, my point should be clear to anyone who has the patience to read what I wrote.

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I hate to say it because it makes out like Siptah’s issues aren’t a thing - but it’s early access.

The map is in development and they’ve been quite clear on that. It’s nowhere near a disaster, but it’s a long way from perfect also. It needs a lot of work and is currently very light on gameplay but very heavy on grinding. It needs quite substantial work but they knew this which is why they released it as early access rather than just a new piece of finished content.

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It is the most trival problem to solve. There are so many tools / processes to use to make this a non-starter issue.

Why do people persist in comparing ARK to Conan Exiles. Rust doesn’t have the issue? ARK has the issue as their devs (ARK) just don’t even attempt to solve the issue let alone support the game.

They have community support staff who …i don’t know…support the community? … since this is complicated for people to grok, i’ll break it down in steps.

  1. Join Official Server #6401
  2. TeleportPlayer 235828.859375 113784.179688 -5857.161133
  3. Enable Ghost
  4. See base visually under mesh.
  5. Look at Building Block owned by offender. Run command in ` console : BuildingIdentify
  6. Copy [ID]
  7. BuildingDestroy [ID]
  8. Exit.

Total Time: 7mins.


(because i know you’re stickler for evidence, here’s the base… see…no excuses for how/why that bottom section exists)

No bans, No warnings, No chasing down who what why etc. Too much drama and excuses. Building is violating the rules, cut and dry. Deleted. Server community within will take care of the rest, as they know offending clans well and once they remove their cache, they’ll put their boot on their neck every day until that clan leaves.

Should the clan try again, take another 7 mins out of your day.

Now lets assume there are 100 servers with meshers each day.

That’s 11 hours per day you’d dedicate to just deleting meshers. Let’s assume to get t3 mats etc going it takes a mesher around 4-6hrs. For every 7mins of Funcoms time thats equates to 4-6hrs of cheaters time.

Who wins long term? Funcom or cheaters?

Why is this so complicated. Why do people persist in making excuses for Funcom on this issue when the very above is currently in place right now. No dev needed. There are 3 Community Support person(s) on payroll in this forum alone. That’s approx 3hrs a day per person :slight_smile:

Eh? … more steps.

  1. Create keybind to work exactly like “shift+delete” (ie use raycast) except instead of deleting, it records blocks xyz coords.
  2. Record XYZ coords in server db.
  3. Create bach sync for official servers to post coords record into cloud (use Google Firebase, its dead simple).
  4. Pool said XYZ coords together in central Octree DB.
  5. Apply SQRT to XYZ for N units around said coords.
  6. Sync Octree DB back to servers.
  7. Execute Server check on Octree post or pre placeable. True/False.

The above mark and save solution can be done by players and staff. If done by players, staff just have to “agree or disagree” to the inbound data… (ie if its part of the “report a cheater” process)

Using data alone, just data… nothing else… you can elimiate over time the ability for cheaters to place models inside areas that they shouldn’t be. The more people report their little hot spots, the more you eliminate just based on their actual behaviour their ability to continue. Using just XYZ coords nothing else. No mesh volume systems, just simple “today that XYZ coord works, tommorow it wont” and eventually the meshers run out of real-estate to hook onto.

Thats about 15mins of theory crafting solved that issue along with basic Async + Data + Octreee storage. Funcom can pay me 2 weeks salary and i’ll write the code for them :wink:

Aboslutely. I feel the game doesn’t need more art design sets… i really do feel the game needs more engineering muscle… in fact… no more art work…just focus on code for maybe 1-2 releases… we’d all be grateful for that.

To be fair, if we’re going to use the urban “forum” definition of white knighting, you’ve just done it in this one response. Rather than letting Funcom defend their position, you’ve interjected on your theory and response on why they can’t do the things they do and how we should stop expecting them to do the things they do (including defending their position).

People are allowed to complain, criticise and have dialog over the topic at hand. Shutting people down because it doesn’t align with your principles isn’t your role here :slight_smile: …you can argue the points, you can provide counter claims but assuming anyone who differs is the above… well…thats just rude.

As for experience…well ok, i have 30 years experience, I have worked creating a programming language (C#) and a framework for developers to use to create games like this. I’ve also worked on TeamFortress 2 and spent many years deobsfucating Minecraft source code so modders could write mods for the game via the MCP project.

Do i qualify now to have this discussion? (ok…that was as very shameful flex…but the point is don’t assume a username on a forum doesn’t have the skillset to do the things you’re saying they can’t…thats just a blind judgement call)

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Fixing undermeshing using a general algorithm that will work in ALL cases and auto delete under-meshed bases is NOT a trivial problem to solve. That is what I meant.

Your “solution” is to throw a bunch of customer service labor resources at the problem instead of a general algorithmic solution. Why doesn’t Funcom do that? Why don’t you ask them.

Well one big reason is because Ark and Conan use the same engine… So it should not be surprising they suffer from similar issues. Don’t know if Rust has this issue as I didn’t play it much. But one thing about Rust is its building system is not as robust as Ark and Conan so that may be a reason.

Interesting to see your hate and developer bashing extends to other games as well :wink:

BTW saying Ark developers don’t support their game and don’t even attempt to deal with their meshing problems is just unhinged ranting and quite simply not true.

Here go read this article from one of Ark’s lead devs on their anti-meshing progress and how difficult this issue is to solve.

As for the rest of your rant, it isn’t even worth responding to. It is obvious you just have an axe to grind.

No, i’m saying you do both. It’s not a zero sum game. Its going to take both. The Volume System they’re working on right now won’t solve the problem. We can wait and see and fast forward but it will require both.

Again… Unreal Engine isn’t the fault. That’s like blaming .NET for a developers inability to secure a webpage.

RUST has less? …err…ok…evidence on that theory…as i don’t know how you came to that conclusion?

here we go… ad hominem attack… can’t argue the point so you go for the person not the point …weak.

Lol… right :slight_smile: … i wont take that bait suffice to say, your sweeping generalisation just got dunked. Thanks for playing.

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That wasn’t an ad hominem attack it was an observation… You are now indeed ranting and bashing against even the Ark developers saying they do not support their game and do not even attempt to deal with the meshing problems. Both of which are simply untrue. So yeah it looks like you are just raging.

If you think you have ALL the answers and everyone that disagrees with you are unenlightened idiots, Ark developers are horrible, and Funcom developers have EVERYTHING totally wrong, then put together a portfolio and go solve all their problems for them…

Show all these developers how it is done dorizzdt!!! Solve all these problems for them :wink:

actually you are right I should of said fan not white knight my apologies. I do not consider that derogatory until someone basically bashes any critique given, it was a poor choice of words with the stigma associated with it.

My original point was about the system that hides posts. I am a strong advocate of being able to speak your mind as long as it’s not inappropriate. My comment was someone felt she could not speak out without taking a ban for it and I made the comment that she should not have to feel that way about it. I have lurked on these boards since they changed to this forum structure and I have followed threads which got hidden because of criticism before, it’s why I made my comments.

I’m not here to bash the game either , it has its fun moments and was worth the purchase but it’s also a buggy wreck that could of been addressed multiple times over but instead priorities shifted obviously. I remember funcoms reasoning for making test live as the community accused them of not testing patches and releasing more bugs so obviously I am not alone in feeling this way. Again though my entire point was people that post here critical of decisions should not have their posts hidden because they do not agree with that persons view its a stupid means to shut someone up basically even though you can still click to view it. Funcom should be policing their own forums and not creating tools to stifle complaints with features or bugs. Thats my view of it all and why I have been saying what I am saying.

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this is white knighting here man , seriously you if you cannot see it I don’t know what to tell you. You read one post here from me and went into a tangent about something that was not even remotely relevant to what codemage and myself are talking about. Undermeshing? that has not even been brought up at all until you brought it up. Ark ? Arks dev team is bone heads but they do fix things every single week, you are welcome to read their myriad of patch notes posted and continue to support ark every single week with patches and events.

I’m sorry if you think you know game development much more than myself. My complaint is bugs that been in the base game since 2015-2017 that quite honestly funcom decided why fix them for? So you are saying its perfectly acceptable to push out art assets and new content and they cannot find the time to fix those bugs since the early days? I’m pretty sure not many people are going to believe you on that one there , sorry man its just the truth.

Rhino’s still fly across the sky and you get stuck in them - funcom not a priority and they make dumb memes about their failures.
Stuttering when sprinting and turning the camera fast on most systems that run amd - Funcom “we will look into it” cricketts from 2017 2018 to date.
Thralls not fighting - this will be addressed , its now almost 2021…

I promise you I can keep going but you get the point I am making. When I purchase a 1.0 release I expect it to work like all other products in society does. So because laws do not cover video games you think they should have a right to ignore underlying issues that been there since day 1? I’m not being sarcastic I actually really do want to know this also because it seems like you think because software dev is hard they get a free pass when all other products in the world are held to a much higher standard.

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I am saying that a development team is NOT just coders. You often have other people with different skill sets that don’t even touch the code working on the game. Just because there are bugs, you don’t stop ALL other aspects of development, and put everything else on hold while there are still bugs.

In other words, parallel production whenever you can. And cranking out cosmetic DLCs that the artists and modelers can work on while the coders work on bugs and other things is a damned good idea. Plus it is a good revenue stream for the company so that they stay well funded.

That is why I say some of you spouting off the things like they should stop even doing DLCs until all bugs are fixed not only shows a lack of knowledge of software development but also a serious lack of business acumen and even common sense.

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