Let's have a discussion about power balance around thrall vs monster vs player

No they don’t. Yes they hit really strong. They don’t do combos though and spend a lot of time not attacking between their attacks… DPS-wise I think they come out similar as decent thralls with decent weapons that do combos.

Pets are also much squishier… they’re sort of glass cannons so I’m fine with them having a slightly higher damage occasionally, though again I don’t think they have that much of a DPS lead over human thralls.
Overall they are still weaker followers than decent thralls who have all the proper equipment mainly because of their lack of armor.
Don’t mistake what I’m saying though, I do not think pets are bad, in fact I often use my white tiger and like him :slight_smile: However had I taken him instead of the human in the above video, all the authority in the world wouldn’t have kept him alive for more than the first few minutes

They can out burst a player, but not out dps. Try it. Count the time between attacks when you’re using that Brutus. Its like 10 seconds inbetween attacks.

Assuming they all hit.

So while you can see a 800 damage hit by one of the crazy elite dogs. Its only like 80dps, and more like 40dps if they hit half the time.

You can do about 200dps with 20STR and a Starmetal Greatsword by just light attacking.

Ok i did some testing myself. I have a build with 20 agility using a legendary katana and i have 20 authority aswell 15 of which are corrupted for the added follower damage.
The Thralls i tested with are my Greater Sabretooth Knabbolitas who I fed primarily +vit meat and his attributes are +vit aswell sitting at 28(+20) str and a beasttamer thrall i got from a cimmerian purge with 40(+25) str equiped with an enchanted adventurers blade. Both are lvl 20
I tested against Humans in New Asgard, the ghost undead, and a mammoth. I only hit the enemies myself to trigger the bonus damage once it timed out.

Against the Asgardians the cat oneshot them with a jump attack basicly killing them instantly. Me and the follower clocked in at about 4 seconds

Against the undead the cat took 2 hits taking 5 seconds rarely they missed an attack or two ading a few seconds. The tamer took a bit above 7 in good attempts but often took 20 aswell since they got staggered or didnt want to combo. I got a reliable 9 seconds

Lastly against the mammoth which admitedly is a bad enemy since it staggers alot. The cat downed it in 1min 40sec since its immune to staggers and knockdowns and its dps is crazy. The Tamer needed 4min 40sec and i needed 3min 30sec which i probably couldve cut by a min with optimal play and more stamina.
So yes you are correct compared to a human follower i can deal more dmg reliably. That said compared to a Sabretooth I am a kid with a leash trying to prevent it from oneshotting all t4s and even in longer fights it has no problem to outdps me.
Im telling you are sleeping on the animal followers

The damage that animals have been able to do hasn’t changed much to 3.0, with that said, their effectiveness is tempered by their survivability. One of the main reasons I didn’t use a Greater Sabretooth before is it couldn’t wear armor.

Armor bonuses have changed in 3.0. It used to be Damage Reduction = Armor / (Armor + 250). Its now Damage Reduction = Armor / (Armor + 500) making armor across the board less effective. Heavy Armor had its values adjusted to compensate.

But armor on NPCs had their values affected. Now for the ridiculous armored stuff like Rocknoses, Elephants, and others. We’re talking a difference of around 1-2pts per 100 damage. Some stuff in the middle like Bears and Drowned Ones saw a significant change. But unarmored foes didn’t really get affected much and this includes these animal pets.

This is why I personally wouldn’t use a Greater Sabretooth over Zombies or Human Thralls. They just don’t quite have the armor or health to survive the content I routinely do. They are great starter thralls for someone who just needs to kill low health opponents however.

If the stuff dies in half the time you only need half the survivability, ill admit against the hardest purges the survivability of human followers is important but ive done both the dagon aswell as the cellar dungeon without issues using the sabretooth and that was before rolling optimal perks rn hes sitting just above 9000 hp

1 minute and 7 seconds for the Player character :slight_smile:
I swear this is like a Mythbusters show… but I’ll stop posting videos before they revoke my video privileges…
Last one I swear :smiley:

So the takeaway here is to stop banging your head against a wall… figure out why things work and why don’t they work… Mammoths have insane armor… 92.13% Damage Reduction to be more precise… (here’s the list we made with @Taemien feel free to bookmark it)
They are not good targets for damage comparisons, especially since your Sabertooth has some native armor pen like most cats.

You can’t balance it without dynamic scaling which is something that has to be built in from the ground up, not something 5 or 6 years in.

Said this before. There are too many variables in all this to account for without having something like that.

You have:

player vs monster
player vs player
player vs npc
player vs monsters
player vs players
player vs npcs
player + thrall vs monster
player + thrall vs monsters
player + thrall vs player
player + thrall vs players
player + thrall vs player + thrall
player + thrall vs players + thralls
player + thrall vs npc
player + thrall vs npcs
player + 2 thralls versus all those thrall options above this

throw in the additional undead ones you can take.

See how messy this all is? Weaken thralls to much and they become garbage to use against groups. Thralls have crappy AI. All they do is run in and hit stuff until it dies. You can’t weaken them further with that. And micro-managing isn’t fun.

I haven’t messed with sorcery yet, but don’t you have to like, break a thrall on the wheel, then sacrifice them, in order to get said zombies in the first place?

Nope. Just knock out an NPC, drag them to the shallow grave instead of the wheel, and then resurrect them.

No, thankfully it’s just a drag and drop like CodeMage says :slight_smile: I was under the impression that you have to break them in first too so I kept trying to squeeze my loyal tamed Lian in the grave… didn’t wanna go :frowning: so I put him in a barrel instead for future purge-defense… Then I went back and captured his respawned twin and dragged him directly to the grave lol

You can do both
So you could drag some in and raise them then put some on the wheel and stash them in a chest to raise later when your first ones expire

Idk about that, my sabre kittys seem to hit at the latest 1 big attack every 2 seconds, and even the lessers with the 20 stat boost seem to wreck one skulls out of the box with 20 authority

EDIT: just read more posts and someone beat me to it

Greater bears?

I did a test with greater sabre too in the other thread, go watch it :stuck_out_tongue: poor thing almost died to a crocodile boss… would’ve actually died if not for having the highest tier food for cats (blood sausages 9 hp/s)

Like I said, they’re great against trivial content, but I’d rather not have to replace them on a day to day basis doing anything harder.

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I’ve been training a scorpion queen pet for the last couple of days. She gets decent armor (with the Well-trained Perk) but the ones I raised from eggs all seem to suffer from a very low chance to raise Vitality, so damage-over-time effects or things that have a high armor penetration are dangerous.

Her advantages seem to be that she’s a pretty active attacker, not taking too long breaks between strikes; immunity to knockdowns and staggers; and attacks that knock down enemies. Her weaknesses seem to be inaccuracy (although her attacks have a decently wide hitbox, sometimes she simply attacks in an entirely wrong direction) and lack of combos of any sort, so despite a pretty solid damage per attack, she still makes only single attacks.

She can tank Unnamed City bosses decently well, but things like Sand Reaper Queen or Scorpion King kill her pretty fast unless I help a lot. So my judgement so far is “situationally useful”. She’s definitely not outperforming human thralls such as Cimmerian Berserkers.

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useless pet