Making all Pets and Thralls useful

tobbiusness · 2022-08-22T16:40:28.161Z

As it stands now, there is no point of breaking an exile thrall, or early game pets like shalebacks. Even when leveled up, their stats are often dismal compared to a fresh beserker or wolf.

For pets, this means we’ll only ever really be able to use so many at high level content. For thralls, because they are functionally all the same this doesnt matter much, if at all. But, that doesnt mean changing it will be a bad thing.

To fix this, I think the most straight forward method is to individually give low & middle tier followers a higher level cap, so their growable stats have the chance to make up this difference.

A change like this ultimately has little to no impact on older more experienced players. Instead, it’ll allow new players take their early companions through the game with them without it being too detrimental to their efficiency.

Sairdontis · 2022-08-22T16:46:22.313Z

Something like this ?

[Suggestion] Ability to continue training (fight with) thralls to raise their quality General Discussion

Hello, What I would like suggest is the ability to continue leveling a thrall of the lower tiers (I, II, III ) to eventually raise them to the higher tiers. Of course this require more time using them in fights in the field to do this, but this would the lower tier thralls to be useful not just killed on sight. This would also allow you to have a thrall from the very beginning that would eventually become great.

Or do you mean something totally different? And do you mean being able to make beasts even stronger over time too? If you are, you have my vote.

Myeth · 2022-08-22T16:48:03.642Z

They have a new perk for players that helps thralls. In my testing, My none elite basic pet, was powerful eoungh to solo a great deal of content in the game. It adds a raw 20 stats to each of their stats, so they are pretty powerful, even normal pets are useful, if they are following the player around. This is coming in the 3.0 patch

tobbiusness · 2022-08-22T16:49:48.277Z

Yes, exactly so.

Barnes · 2022-08-22T16:54:54.299Z

No.

For the first time ever I’m playing Single Player, which makes your assertions wrong. Never before have fast-trained followers been more valuable.

Sairdontis · 2022-08-22T17:27:56.636Z

Are you going to have to train up higher Tier thralls to do later content eventually though? Would be nice if thralls and pets didn’t become obsolete later on higher difficulty content with tougher npcs.

Wolfrider4594 · 2022-08-22T18:14:21.741Z

And why it seems a problem for you ? When a thrall reach obsolescence, you free him / her and take a better one.

TeleTesselator · 2022-08-22T18:33:16.488Z

Barnes:

No.

For the first time ever I’m playing Single Player, which makes your assertions wrong. Never before have fast-trained followers been more valuable.

I was just about to post the same thing. Even a leveled Shaleback and especially a Greater Shaleback can kick some major ass! I dunno if they can solo Red Mother but with the right stats it might be possible. They can assist with Red Mother and not die - that’s already good enough IMO.

That’s in 2.8 though. I dunno if this will change in 3.0 but I can agree this:

Wolfrider4594:

And why it seems a problem for you ? When a thrall reach obsolescence, you free him / her and take a better one.

Sairdontis · 2022-08-22T18:36:48.950Z

The obvious first problem is the wasted training time both on the wheel and in the field leveling the thrall. Seems like a waste of time if at the end you just throw that time away because of a built in dead in and a very strange one at that.

From an RP or immersion stand point, you knock a exile out, then you break them on a wheel, then you train them in the field your way. Now after all that you just release them back out into the field… Sounds like a good way to build an angry army against you.

Now I get it, in game mechanics the thrall just poofs out of existence when you set them free, but from a immersion and in game lore stand point it doesn’t make much since to have to or even to choice to do so. I would make much more since that the thrall would just get better at their job with the more battles they fight.

I understand the upper cap of a max tier thrall from a game balance stand point, but there is no real reason for this cap not be able to be reached eventually by any thrall given the time.

Wolfrider4594 · 2022-08-22T18:57:50.713Z

I free thralls very easily even T4 ones if they get a wrong perk while leveling. I automatically free a pet before any training if it isn’t a greater one. I’don’t mean having to retry capturing, taming and training until I got the thrall / pet with the right pets. But I usually keep only one thrall and one pet and one horse. Since I can’t go in dungeons with more followers I don’t need more. Dancers to clean corruption and bearers for gathering raw materials are left untrained.
And on SIptah I don’t even use thralls as followers since I can get Brutus very easily.

Sairdontis · 2022-08-22T19:31:41.142Z

I AoS you can clear pet/thrall perks so theres that. Just seems a waste to just can them so quick when they could be made to be more adjustable.

Taemien · 2022-08-22T19:40:22.024Z

There is a doubled edged sword here. The reason Exiles and Early Game pets are worthless is because their stats are directly taken from what they are in the wild. This is why endgame stuff is so strong.

If they made Exiles as hard as Berserkers, or Shalebacks as hard as Wolves it would fix this issue. It would also wreck the faces off any new player who tried to play.

The issue is something that would take a ton of effort to change and isn’t feasible in 3.X, but is something that should be pressed for in 4.0 in the future.

Wolfrider4594 · 2022-08-22T20:00:46.054Z

I’d prefer if Funcom keep the thralls tiers system as it is now with lower thralls reaching obsolescence. I think adding another way to get followers by cooperation and convincing them the’ll be better being with you than against you, is a lot more interresting than giving lower tier thralls access to higher tiers.
And Named Thralls should stay unique. That’s why a PC could only one named thrall with the same id. Be it crafters or fighters / archers or bearers or dancers.

Croms_Faithful · 2022-08-22T20:23:03.651Z

Barnes:

For the first time ever I’m playing Single Player

Welcome to the dark side Barnes! Speaking from a position of blatant, unapologetic bias here it is the best way to go. It certainly allows one to tweak the settings to ensure maximum challenge or quality of life. No more ugly structures dotting the landscape, no more building restrictions or trolling juveniles. Sure it can be lonely at times, but I have always enjoyed a kind of desolate I am legend sort of vibe adventuring alone, or with my Tiger when I actually take him.

Barnes · 2022-08-22T20:57:19.973Z

Single Player is a meaningful option now, from an old purist.

I have had an absolute blast, no vP needed.

Barnes · 2022-08-22T21:00:27.644Z

From an objective point, you want help as long and as early as possible. This makes sense from a character standpoint.

Also, I’ve never fought harder or faster than now, knowing my dudes get hurt a lot but heal quickly.

stelagel · 2022-08-22T21:27:25.186Z

Barnes:

Single Player is a meaningful option now, from an old purist.

Single player rocks! The whole map is yours. In the last challenge I did I remember spawns that I had forgotten because some places are always builded, or over builded and even the performance of the game made you run away from these places. I had some time to actually feel the king of my own map and tbh I miss it! A lot!
Try the mercenaries of the Buccaneers Bay, you ain’t going to believe, even the tier 2 how good they can become! Spawn the gold, no need to grind it if you don’t wish!

Now @tobbiusness in parts I agree, in others I disagree, allow me to explain why?
First I agree to the point that strength has no race! The way the game is right now darfaris and exiles are weak and as you go northern until volcano they are stronger, well, this is wrong, because strength has no race!
But.
If we go to the risk part, the hp part and the terrain part, the way devs made the value of the npcs is correct! The only thrall that was breaking this balance was Teimos and I am extremely happy he will be nerfed!
Teimos however was for pvp use and a really useful thrall, so I stopped a year ago complaining about this “wrong” .
There is not only pve!
However, I said it a lot of times and I will say it once more, Tugra,
has nothing to envy from other thralls, his survival points are huge from the very beginning.
OK he doesn’t hit as a berserker but he can stand in poisoning fights better than a berserker!
Tugra with a decent armor set and ajas bane is a really decent thrall, especially on level 20 which he reach extremely fast.

Closing, I will say that this unfair part of strength devs fix it in Siptah, the darfari fighters you gain from surge are BEASTS! This made me extremely happy because balance restored .

Barnes · 2022-08-22T21:29:41.553Z

It’s just the advancing of time that’s missing. Part of playing multiplayer is the advancing of time, and the risk someone will say cut your thrall’s throat on the wheel or steal her.

In Single Player you must be purposeful in your activity. I have a whole new respect now.

stelagel · 2022-08-22T21:35:54.062Z

Do I have to beg you to do a series of episodes of your advance in single player?
And even if I beg will it work? .
Please, Barnes, please!
Think about it, please!

Barnes · 2022-08-22T21:39:08.773Z

Also, there’s a trade-off with any transaction, and while she lost a few points in strength she gained a combo. I am finding leveling to be very … intoxicating?

I’ll do it, brother. I have the tape.