New Terms of Service clarification

There are none. And hopefully there never are.

The point is that demanding that FC have hard definitive rules around building will result in building limits ( in whatever form or fashion).

I agree there are better systems they could implement, but they won’t. Limits are what we will get.

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But this is definitely better than random bans for violations of the rules that no one knows. So if you really have to choose, I think the limits are better.

you cant expect people to follow rules no one understands with clarity, otherwise it can be discriminatory… how can you ban someone for having something big? when it was perfectly legal to build and maintain those structures in the past?

so i have a large structure, how much smaller i need to make it in order to be within the acceptable limits?

10 man clans needs much larger and more structrues to accomodate each member, it is not unreasonable that a 10 man clan has 10 bases, (as everytone has the right to enjoy the building system) a 1 man clan, cant have more than 1 structure and should be more limited than what a 10 man clan can?

this is way too complex without understanding what can be done and what cannot. what are those limits?

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Maybe this doesn’t add much to the debate, I don’t know - but one thing that a bunch of legal systems seem to have in common is the concept of the ‘reasonable man’. This is often used as a legal standard - judging not whether the defendant knew what was right or wrong, and not how the victim or even the judge views events, but trying to judge how the average ‘reasonable man’ might view the situation. (Random UK factoid - this is (or was) referred to as ‘the man on the Clapham omnibus’ - Clapham being a London borough and omnibus being an older term for bus - so essentially ‘what would the average person on public transport think’). It strikes me that maybe Funcom is applying a similar principle here.

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the problem with that approach is, i can feel my structure is fine, due to the size of my clan, but funcom or others might think it is not. thats the main issue , without clarity, we are blind regarding limits and how funcom will punish or enforce this set of shady rules.

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I know that a lot of private servers have rules that you aren’t allowed to have high stacks of normal foundations as they caused lag. I suspect there will be some soft rules that they’ll look at (and have on their side) and then check to see if there are outliers while they investigate.

If you are spamming foundations and pillars all over, expect your stuff to get zapped.

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I disagree on both of these premises.

The VAST majority of CE players are not being banned. Seems like I can reasonably expect them to follow the vague set of rules.

If you got banned perhaps introspection would serve you better than trying to play rules lawyer on the forum? (Rhetorical not directed) It’s not like it’s that hard to grasp the intent of the rules as written coupled with further evidence of the bans handed down.

Whatever FC decides is best for the health of their public servers.

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Or simply stop playing on official servers.
People already leave to private servers after server transfer implementation and now they have even more reasons to stay away from officials.

i am not playing anything on the forums, i expect clarity from them, so you are missing the point, there cant be rules without understanding what the rules are and what are the limits. again people wants clarity. i can grasp the intent, it is crystal clear, the limits are not, cause i can be one of those players that thing that anything larger than a 6x6 structure is way too big and they need to get destroyed and the clan banned for it.

you are also missing the point , a week ago, it was legal and ok to build and hold large structures some of this structures took years or months to build, and people did it, as it was legal to do it, now the big question, how small i need to shrink my structure to be within acceptable funcom limits? why should i get banned when i dont know how big the structure needs to be in order to get a disciplinary action?

they are Not enforcing the rules as of yet… they will starting sept 27 (someone said above)

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can you please stay on topic?, if you want to talk about why people need to leave to unofficial servers, please create your own thread about it. this topic is about the new terms of service (for official servers)

thank you,

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I don’t know. As I’ve said repeatedly, I agree that this is not clear enough and needs to be clearer.

A 14-day ban if it’s your first time, a permanent ban if it’s not your first time. It says so in the rules.

Yes, you can. You tell people “we have new rules coming up, we’re going to start enforcing them at such-and-such date, you have this grace period to adapt” and then you ban those who didn’t.

The problem is not that the rules change – of course the rules change, that’s normal – the problem is that the grace period is not very useful if it’s hard to know whether you’re breaking the new rules or not.

You can, but that’s got nothing to do with the competitive advantage of not having to go near your hidden base to refresh it.

So was animation cancelling and look what happened to it. Appeal to tradition is not a valid argument.

That won’t control the building size on PVE(-C) servers. It will only slow down the building process.

Besides, the rules are not about the building size, they’re about the performance.

Are you playing on PC? If you are, use the console command ToggleDebugHUD, ride very far away from your building, wait for a couple of minutes at least, then ride back to it. If you see the “Server FPS” value in the upper right corner turn orange or red, that’s a warning sign. If you repeat this several times and it happens consistently, then your build is messing up the server performance.

Will that get you banned if someone reports you? I don’t know, that remains to be seen.

Is this the way we should check this? Hell, no.

They are. And they’ve been applying that principle right from the start, when they first published the rules.

Thing is, that approach works better when people trust you, and many people on these forums don’t trust Funcom as much as they used to. That accounts for the majority of those who are complaining right now. A few others are complaining because they like to complain about everything Funcom does, but that’s nothing new :wink:

Yeah, we get it. “Go play on private servers” and “go play a different game” stop being clever after the first 5 times.

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this also accounts for what type of server is it, what hardware is it, how old the database is. and how messed up the database is. so i dont think this approach is good at all. as it will provide different outcomes.

so… are we now getting a ban hammer because the server is not in good shape? or is it really because of my building?

food for thought

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Can say the same thing to you. :man_shrugging:

One fun fact, i have nealy 40 fps near real big base (nearly 35k pieces) building on exiles map, and 23-27 fps on top of the mountain on siptah. I think it is time to ban this mountains :grinning:

You could, if I were the one repeating the exact same catchphrase every time I had the chance :wink:

From the rules:

You’re measuring only client performance. Server FPS, on official server, never goes above 30.

Ah yes sorry for not rewording same thing again and again but uner different sauce.
Simply not up to local forum nolifers I guess.

interesting…

now what hardware will be used to measure it?, cause i can run it with a 3080 and a very strong cpu and it will not make a dent , or i can run it in my secondary pc with a 1060 3gb, and it will get a performance hit.

client side, depends on the computer you are running , so if people with potatos comes near my pretty base, and that person file a report, am i getting banned because of a random guy low end PC can run at 30fps at my place?

on the other hand.

if the server database is in bad shape, or too old, or its having issues (on gportal side) am i getting banned? because the server cant handle my place?

i mean, we need to understand this.

in general, but does not relate to building sizes, and again you cant ban people if people does not know how to correct it during the grace period they are giving, i will keep asking how much do i need to cut my base in order to be within acceptable funcom limits?

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I’ve been coding a bot for WoW for almost 6 years. And yes, adding a messaging system isn’t that difficult. Another question is what to write in it. And who will write. In this case, it is necessary to write warnings to the players, and this should be done by the same people who are involved in the ban. Yes, it takes a little longer, but this is not critical. And it shows that companies care about their player base. I can say with confidence that most of the people who are banned for building will never come back here, and will not bring friends.

No, I am not missing the point. The performance rule has been in place for a long time now. This is the old language: “ Irresponsible abuses of the building system leading to loss of performance both on client and server-side.” The new language expands this definition to be more specific. If you haven’t got banned yet you either aren’t breaking the rules or you haven’t been reported.

FC clarified and condensed the rules, to appease people whining about not knowing why they were banned. Yet here we are.

Sheesh, this thread really took off since last night. For now I’ll just comment on a couple things that caught my eye after a quick scan.

Um, no. What you’ve said repeatedly is that it’s clear enough and would be a waste of time to make any clearer.

Bingo. That’s why clarity in the rules is important. There’s always going to be some leeway here and there, but the sharper the line is the easier it is for people to follow and consistently enforce. This image @3LiON posted for example:

Imgur

It’s a “huge structure full of emptiness and nothingness using a lot of build pieces only for the sake of size”. With apparently 4 floors bellow it. He sees it as an example of something unquestionably over the line.

To me, that isn’t all that big. It’s obviously incomplete, and the “emptiness” is going to be filled with workstations and shrines and whatnot. Now there might be an issue if they pack those objects in there like sardines in a can, especially light sources which there are only four, maybe five visible in the photo. But otherwise I don’t think there would be a real problem for the server or anyone with a decent rig.

Everyone generally wants to follow the rules, and the ones that don’t will quite clearly go out of their way not to. But the rules have to be clear enough that a reasonable person can follow them. A rule like “Don’t build so much that you impact server and client performance.” doesn’t quite cut it. The spirit behind it is basically not to put so many torches together that just walking nearby will bring the server to it’s knees in agony. But there are so many other variables and interpretations at play that it’s unclear just where that enforcement line is. Relying purely on “good judgment” from the enforcers is generally a bad idea that will bite you in the ass eventually.