Officials: TOC does not cover bannable offenses

Hey, I’m here half to ask questions and half to plead that if admins are going to take drastic actions like 2 week clan banning and deleting 700 hours of work-- that they update the Terms of Conduct to reflect the reasons they ban people.

Recently my PVE-C clan got nuked by admins for “building abuse” and “damaging player structures with a purge”. I honestly do not know what building abuse refers to, but I would assume it is one of two things: We built an open-top inescapable base, so if people enter our base without permission they are blocked by fences and cannot leave. Making traps by using fences and crenelated walls is something many people would think of as a use for anti-climbing structures along with spike pits and palisades. It seems like a viable and valid war strategy for a server with PVP. I know that we have been reported dozens of times for this.

Is it bannable to create traps that players can fall into and not escape? If so, why is it not covered in the Terms of Conduct?

Speaking of palisades, many of you know that palisades damage enemy player thralls that are scouting or guarding. You can use this method to clear thralls that have been left behind by players who deleted their toons, you can kill thralls that have been left unprotected out in the wild away from land claim, and you can use them to counteract people who bracelet cheese (are naked and send their lvl 20 dalinsia at you and bracelet when it gets low health so you can’t hurt it anymore). At first glance it seems like a bug, but it has valid use cases and is a valuable tool that has a place in the game as is. In any case, there are forum posts dating back 2 years regarding palisading thralls. Surely in 2 years Funcom could have either updated their TOC to include such uses (It only mentions blocking content or building in a way that decreases performance) or if it is a bug they would have fixed it by now.

Is it bannable to use palisades to kill player thralls? If so, why is it not in the Terms of Conduct?

Lastly, we got a purge and kited mobs to destroy some of a rival’s neighboring base. Would I be mad if it happened to me? Yeah. But are there hours where roving NPCs can and will damage player structures? Yes. Is it a bannable offense covered in the Terms of Conduct? No. PVE-C is essentially PVP lite and raid hours are still a thing.

Kiting purges is not covered in the Terms of Conduct. Why was I banned for it?

I have filed Zendesk tickets about these issues with the TOC but haven’t received a response in a few weeks and thought it would be good to have a discussion about it here.

We may sound like a cancerous clan but we use shady (but TOC abiding) methods to redistribute wealth from fat cats who log in weekly to reset decay to new active players who need a hand. Starting from stone tools again with no explanation as to why we are being penalized for violations we haven’t heard or read about is heartbreaking. Funcom needs to make a TOC that reflects the bans they are handing out.

Either way, if I can honestly get some clarification on which of the 3 above actions are bannable offenses so that I can know my limits from now on it would be very helpful.

Thanks for reading

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Thanks for that post. I wish it could help pushing Funcom to make things clearer.
What server were you on, out of curiosity?

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On the one hand, I agree the rules need to be clear and their nebulous handling of unwritten rules causes a lot of headaches.

On the other hand, you’re telling me you joined a pve server (aka… no raiding) and spent your time building traps players can’t get out of due to no raiding, dragging purges to other players’ bases to raid them (when raiding isn’t normally possible), and using pallisades to kill thralls when you shouldn’t be able to… sounds like you couldn’t hack it on pvp servers and decided to go somewhere people couldn’t hit back.

I mean yeah, that’s not in the TOS… but if you’re on a server that is clearly marked by the inability to raid, using ingame mechanics to raid despite that… I’m just saying, does someone REALLY have to spell that one out to you?

PVE-C is essentially PVP lite

Not in a million years. PVE-C is PVE with a gank occuring once per week. If you what you wanted was to go on raids, destroy bases, and kill people without restraint, you’re on the wrong server type. Plenty of room on the pvp servers though if you want to make the switch.

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Yes, they do need to spell out what rules they will and will not delete everything you work for based on. 100%.

You can smack talk me for PvPing on a PvE-C server all you like, but our server is active and there is PvP throughout raid hours daily. I have 2 jobs and a family. I like the PvP aspect of the game and don’t like the idea of having to constantly stress about my base being blown up by demonfire barrage while I’m seeing to my life responsibilities. It’s almost like this game type was made for someone like me or something. Conflating PvE servers with PvE-C servers isn’t a good take. Funcom has decisively made the two different game types with the calculated cost that it splits the player base because it is that different and worth it for players like me.

Anyway this isn’t a discussion about server types or if I’m enough of a tough guy to make it on a “real” PvP server

I’m sorry to hear that you have been banned. I too have used palisades on a PvE C server to kill thralls, but I’ve never thought I was breaking any kind of rules. I have a question I would like to ask, and I have it open in the forums at the moment…

During the non PvP time on a PvE C server, if wild animals attack a player who then runs and hides, and the wild animals then attack another players thralls, is this against the rules, and if so, which ones?

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You mean kiting a mob to another players thralls. . .lol. They added tethers to stop this, but people still build close enough to boss mobs for it to happen.
And who knows what is against the rules these days. . .

I have 2 jobs and a family. I like the PvP aspect of the game and don’t like the idea of having to constantly stress about my base being blown up

I hear you say this, shortly after you tell me you drag purges to other peoples’ bases to blow them up. Isn’t that exactly the kind of stress pve-c isn’t supposed to have, hence why you play there?

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Before we dragged a purge to a neighbor, we got plenty of threats from others saying they would do it to us and it’s how we got the idea in the first place haha. We managed to break down a wall and 2 chests with a jungle biome purge. It’s not stressful to make sure your base’s thrall defenses can protect against purge enemies that don’t want to be there and constantly have to be kited, and you know that you’re safe for a while after they’ve been purged and you don’t have to worry about your base being annihilated if you have taken precautions. I’ve seen videos of demonfire barrages turning T4 apex clan bases in to rubble with little to no effort and killing all of their godbreaker thralls inside too.

It’s not the same, it is like PvP-lite. I honestly don’t know why you’re here arguing about it but until an admin can clarify the rules I have nothing better to talk about I guess.

There are no lawyers in survival games. Crom’s ban-hammer does the job nicely.

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@Ignasis it would be helpful to get an official stance on the actions I mentioned here.

You wont get one, because it is one of those “grey” areas, that is almost a game mechanic. If kiting a mob to another players base/thralls was bannable, I wouldve been banned a gazillion times in the last five years.
I have also logged in to see parts of my base destroyed on a PVE-C server from someone elses Purge. It wasnt even a big deal to me, I just repaired and moved on.

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I wasn’t using the right tagging methods. @Community is there any official stance on any of these issues?

Am I not tagging correctly? Why can I not get an official response on what the rules are? Doesn’t this help everybody?

@Ignasis @Community

Funny. I missed this in the game description.

I love these threads where people complain about being unfairly banned for harassing other players. In case you missed it, here’s a relevant part of the TOC, with some added emphasis by me:

This, by the way, is under the section called “Harassment and Griefing”. In case anyone really needs this spelled out for them, the idea is “don’t be a humongous dick to other players”.

I think it’s great that they don’t spell everything out in TOC and reserve the rights to act upon their discretion, because there’s always some schmuck who wants to engage in “rules lawyering”, i.e. “Why was I banned for this thing that serves no other purpose but to harass other players, if it isn’t specifically listed and spelled out in the rules?”

@nighght, I’ve had to tolerate players like you on official PVE-C servers where I played, way too often for my liking. I am ecstatic that they’re banning people for behavior like that.

The purpose of PVE-C is crystal clear: it’s for people who want to engage in player-on-player combat, but don’t want to lose their buildings to other players. You found a way to get around that and grief other players. Congratulations! You’re neither the first, nor last. Enjoy your ban.

As for knowing your limits from now on, refer to “don’t be a humongous dick to other players”. Seriously, it’s much less effort to not grief other people.

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FWIW, I feel ya. While Funcom is doing better at dealing with this stuff, they have a long way to go. You getting banned for said offenses, while other, more egregious offenses go untouched, is confusing at minimum. If they are going to continue to have TOC, they need more clarity. To assume players know what Funcom’s intentions are with certain mechanics is erroneous on their part. They made a sandbox game. By that nature players are going to use all discovered mechanics, intended or not.

And while some want to harp on you for using those mechanics on a PvE-C server, I would remind those folks that the C is for Conflict. Interpret as you will (since Funcom does not).

Agreed.

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Just remember that ‘officials’ are just private servers rented by Funcom instead of players. That means all the asshatery you see on privates from admins you will see on officials. They can ban for any reason or no reason. When you purchased Conan Exiles, you didn’t purchase a right to play on officials. Just as you didn’t buy rights to play on any private server.

When you play on ‘officials’ you agree to play by Funcom’s interpretation and any deviancy (in their opinion) will result in a ban. Its their server their right. Your opinions matter not. Its their server their rules.

If you agree with their opinion. Continue to play there. If not, find one that you do agree with (like most of us already do). If you can’t find one, start one.

At the end of the day, the best admin for your playstyle is probably you. You all just have to decide if the server you play on has policies and enforcement you agree with. And right now, most people who play on officials after several years agree with the policies and enforcement.

You get banned for saying bad words.
You get banned for harassment.
You get banned for griefing.

If you made a character on official, you agree with those rules. You agreed to be banned if you violate them. Even if you didn’t read the rules. Even if you couldn’t find the rules. You agreed to them the moment you all made your characters.

Lets stop breaking agreements and complaining about the consequences for doing so. Just follow the God damned rules. It doesn’t need to be spelled out. You all are adults with the basic mental facilities to purchase, install, and setup the game. This should not be hard.

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The closest I can come to agreeing with you is to say that the game mode names are not self-explanatory. Strictly speaking, PVE-C is a PVP mode, because there is a PVP element in it.

That said, I completely agree with @Taemien: not knowing the rules is traditionally not an excuse for breaking them. And the difference between PVE-C and PVP servers is not hard to grok, either. I mean, anyone who chooses a PVE-C server for the following reason:

has absolutely no business pretending they don’t know what the difference between PVE-C and PVP is.

Should Funcom put a big, red banner under PVE-C saying “players can harm each other but cannot damage each other’s buildings”? Maybe. Is this hard to find out without the banner? Hell no, it isn’t. So if someone knows that, but comes up with an idea to damage someone else’s buildings anyway, that’s griefing, pure and simple.

EDIT: Fixed some grammar mistakes.

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Correct. And in spirit I don’t disagree with you nor Taemien. Not knowing the rules is no excuse for breaking them. But, not knowing Funcom’s intentions, or knowing all the ins/outs of their broad TOC, or not even knowing what “being a dick” means, is borderline defensible. Many players, as evidenced by their conduct, do not know. And no, I’m not talking about hacks/ddos/undermesh (all of which doesn’t even need a TOC). Do you recall when you basically couldn’t die from falling if you had the 2nd perk in agility? Was it an exploit and against the TOC for players to go ahead and buy up to that 2nd perk? How about stacking doors when the building system allowed you to place more than one door on a door frame? How about hiding chests in foundations? What about all various ways over the years in which players boosted to level 60 by mining black ice, crafting compost heaps, crafting skulls, crafting explosive traps, etc etc etc? Should they have been banned for those mechanics? (no need to answer that, I know I’m being a tad extreme).

I imagine you and I probably agree on Funcom’s intentions behind their game, their TOC, and what “being a dick” means (which, by the way, is my broad rule I use on my private servers), or even what exploits are or are not egregious. I’m merely taking the stance that Funcom, like many other things they’ve done, has made a bit of a CF when it comes to what is and is not a violation.

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