Officials: TOC does not cover bannable offenses

@Ignasis it would be helpful to get an official stance on the actions I mentioned here.

You wont get one, because it is one of those “grey” areas, that is almost a game mechanic. If kiting a mob to another players base/thralls was bannable, I wouldve been banned a gazillion times in the last five years.
I have also logged in to see parts of my base destroyed on a PVE-C server from someone elses Purge. It wasnt even a big deal to me, I just repaired and moved on.

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I wasn’t using the right tagging methods. @Community is there any official stance on any of these issues?

Am I not tagging correctly? Why can I not get an official response on what the rules are? Doesn’t this help everybody?

@Ignasis @Community

Funny. I missed this in the game description.

I love these threads where people complain about being unfairly banned for harassing other players. In case you missed it, here’s a relevant part of the TOC, with some added emphasis by me:

This, by the way, is under the section called “Harassment and Griefing”. In case anyone really needs this spelled out for them, the idea is “don’t be a humongous dick to other players”.

I think it’s great that they don’t spell everything out in TOC and reserve the rights to act upon their discretion, because there’s always some schmuck who wants to engage in “rules lawyering”, i.e. “Why was I banned for this thing that serves no other purpose but to harass other players, if it isn’t specifically listed and spelled out in the rules?”

@nighght, I’ve had to tolerate players like you on official PVE-C servers where I played, way too often for my liking. I am ecstatic that they’re banning people for behavior like that.

The purpose of PVE-C is crystal clear: it’s for people who want to engage in player-on-player combat, but don’t want to lose their buildings to other players. You found a way to get around that and grief other players. Congratulations! You’re neither the first, nor last. Enjoy your ban.

As for knowing your limits from now on, refer to “don’t be a humongous dick to other players”. Seriously, it’s much less effort to not grief other people.

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FWIW, I feel ya. While Funcom is doing better at dealing with this stuff, they have a long way to go. You getting banned for said offenses, while other, more egregious offenses go untouched, is confusing at minimum. If they are going to continue to have TOC, they need more clarity. To assume players know what Funcom’s intentions are with certain mechanics is erroneous on their part. They made a sandbox game. By that nature players are going to use all discovered mechanics, intended or not.

And while some want to harp on you for using those mechanics on a PvE-C server, I would remind those folks that the C is for Conflict. Interpret as you will (since Funcom does not).

Agreed.

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Just remember that ‘officials’ are just private servers rented by Funcom instead of players. That means all the asshatery you see on privates from admins you will see on officials. They can ban for any reason or no reason. When you purchased Conan Exiles, you didn’t purchase a right to play on officials. Just as you didn’t buy rights to play on any private server.

When you play on ‘officials’ you agree to play by Funcom’s interpretation and any deviancy (in their opinion) will result in a ban. Its their server their right. Your opinions matter not. Its their server their rules.

If you agree with their opinion. Continue to play there. If not, find one that you do agree with (like most of us already do). If you can’t find one, start one.

At the end of the day, the best admin for your playstyle is probably you. You all just have to decide if the server you play on has policies and enforcement you agree with. And right now, most people who play on officials after several years agree with the policies and enforcement.

You get banned for saying bad words.
You get banned for harassment.
You get banned for griefing.

If you made a character on official, you agree with those rules. You agreed to be banned if you violate them. Even if you didn’t read the rules. Even if you couldn’t find the rules. You agreed to them the moment you all made your characters.

Lets stop breaking agreements and complaining about the consequences for doing so. Just follow the God damned rules. It doesn’t need to be spelled out. You all are adults with the basic mental facilities to purchase, install, and setup the game. This should not be hard.

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The closest I can come to agreeing with you is to say that the game mode names are not self-explanatory. Strictly speaking, PVE-C is a PVP mode, because there is a PVP element in it.

That said, I completely agree with @Taemien: not knowing the rules is traditionally not an excuse for breaking them. And the difference between PVE-C and PVP servers is not hard to grok, either. I mean, anyone who chooses a PVE-C server for the following reason:

has absolutely no business pretending they don’t know what the difference between PVE-C and PVP is.

Should Funcom put a big, red banner under PVE-C saying “players can harm each other but cannot damage each other’s buildings”? Maybe. Is this hard to find out without the banner? Hell no, it isn’t. So if someone knows that, but comes up with an idea to damage someone else’s buildings anyway, that’s griefing, pure and simple.

EDIT: Fixed some grammar mistakes.

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Correct. And in spirit I don’t disagree with you nor Taemien. Not knowing the rules is no excuse for breaking them. But, not knowing Funcom’s intentions, or knowing all the ins/outs of their broad TOC, or not even knowing what “being a dick” means, is borderline defensible. Many players, as evidenced by their conduct, do not know. And no, I’m not talking about hacks/ddos/undermesh (all of which doesn’t even need a TOC). Do you recall when you basically couldn’t die from falling if you had the 2nd perk in agility? Was it an exploit and against the TOC for players to go ahead and buy up to that 2nd perk? How about stacking doors when the building system allowed you to place more than one door on a door frame? How about hiding chests in foundations? What about all various ways over the years in which players boosted to level 60 by mining black ice, crafting compost heaps, crafting skulls, crafting explosive traps, etc etc etc? Should they have been banned for those mechanics? (no need to answer that, I know I’m being a tad extreme).

I imagine you and I probably agree on Funcom’s intentions behind their game, their TOC, and what “being a dick” means (which, by the way, is my broad rule I use on my private servers), or even what exploits are or are not egregious. I’m merely taking the stance that Funcom, like many other things they’ve done, has made a bit of a CF when it comes to what is and is not a violation.

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and how exactly can someone tell you kited something or instead they actaully spawned near to someone else base? the only thing i can think of is you were caught and filmed, and that got used as irrefutable proof.

it is if you build around an obelisk or make the traps with the intent of damaging others experience. making then to loose their stuff.

nope, that is NOT illegal, it could be seen as something an A-hole would do, but it is also a very effective way to take care of abandoned stuff, where is the line there i cant tell, what i can tell you is if they start banning people for that, at least half of the population if not more deserves it.

@CodeMage PvP-C servers are designed with player conflict in mind. I am here asking what the line between griefing and employing in game mechanics is. I have been told that killing a player and looting the body is griefing; the term means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and I don’t see any point in leaving it up for debate, other than putting players who focus on PvP on eggshells. The big upside of private servers is that they take extremely common issues and lay them out so that “rules lawyers” like me can just comfortably play with in the extents of the rules. ie “No palisading thralls, no off-hand animation canceling” are commonplace guidelines, and with them in place there is basically zero room to do anything shady or ride the line. There are lots of obvious downsides to private servers too, but this is something that is often done right and it is nothing but healthy for their playerbase.

There is no gray area for palisading thralls, either it is OK or it isn’t. If it isn’t, why has it not been patched in the last 2 years that it has existed, and at the very least why is it not mentioned in the rules? I don’t think it’s a leap of logic or a case of rules lawyering to assume that it has been left in the game as a legitimate tool.

How about making player traps? I’m guessing you would consider that griefing, but it’s a fundamental to base defense throughout history and we have 3 spike pit items… in a world setting with savagery and cannibalism at it’s core. Our attributes literally spell out SAVAGE. At this point I have no idea if this is a legal strategy for base defense, as our base had one and it was deleted.

You can pretend you know about the conflicts that have gone on in our server, like we weren’t fully enclosed by fenced walls or wall torch-spammed to tank our fps into the 20s in our main base, or that we’ve had 50+ of our thralls palisaded, or had bridges built to successfully kite world bosses to come kill our thralls. We were fine to adapt and take these methods as a lesson to protect ourselves better from the possibilities available to a clan at war with another (even though some of those offenses were clearly outlined as against TOS).

Rules clarity is better for everyone, I don’t see any argument that can be made otherwise.

I won’t, but I do want to point out that cheating and griefing are two different kinds of rule-breaking, and everything you pointed out in that paragraph falls under the “were they cheating” question, rather than “were they griefing”.

But yeah, it looks like you and I agree in general.

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@Palm522

and how exactly can someone tell you kited something or instead they actaully spawned near to someone else base? the only thing i can think of is you were caught and filmed, and that got used as irrefutable proof.

I think Funcom probably looked into why the structure was damaged and saw that a purge intended for another clan had caused it.

it is if you build around an obelisk or make the traps with the intent of damaging others experience. making then to loose their stuff.

Obviously building traps to prevent people from accessing world features is against TOC, it is listed there. I am referring to building traps into your own base, which yes would technically be “damaging player experience” if you count imprisonment and death as damaging. But I don’t see how it isn’t completely legitimate.

nope, that is NOT illegal, it could be seen as something an A-hole would do, but it is also a very effective way to take care of abandoned stuff, where is the line there i cant tell, what i can tell you is if they start banning people for that, at least half of the population if not more deserves it.

Tell that to my citation labelled “building abuse”, whatever that means

you can with purges, the game can with purges, (with or without player intervention , purges can target structures that are not the ones they are supposed to target)

nothing you cant deal with , with guards and pve defenders ! part of the magic, and part of the game

This couldn’t be said better. I can honestly say that that I do not know Funcom’s intention for how their game should be played or what they consider “being a dick” on servers where PvP is a core feature.

it could mean you overbuilt, to the point it wsa hurting the server, builkding abuse can be several things.

purges can damage other peoples structures wihtout player intervention. if the structure is in their path, they will attack it.

We had a moderate sized base compared to some of the absolutely massive sprawling bases and highways on the server, and we had almost completely shifted our lighting to gems as Conan’s torch optimization is terrible and is the main contributor to lost performance.