Officials: TOC does not cover bannable offenses

and how exactly can someone tell you kited something or instead they actaully spawned near to someone else base? the only thing i can think of is you were caught and filmed, and that got used as irrefutable proof.

it is if you build around an obelisk or make the traps with the intent of damaging others experience. making then to loose their stuff.

nope, that is NOT illegal, it could be seen as something an A-hole would do, but it is also a very effective way to take care of abandoned stuff, where is the line there i cant tell, what i can tell you is if they start banning people for that, at least half of the population if not more deserves it.

@CodeMage PvP-C servers are designed with player conflict in mind. I am here asking what the line between griefing and employing in game mechanics is. I have been told that killing a player and looting the body is griefing; the term means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and I don’t see any point in leaving it up for debate, other than putting players who focus on PvP on eggshells. The big upside of private servers is that they take extremely common issues and lay them out so that “rules lawyers” like me can just comfortably play with in the extents of the rules. ie “No palisading thralls, no off-hand animation canceling” are commonplace guidelines, and with them in place there is basically zero room to do anything shady or ride the line. There are lots of obvious downsides to private servers too, but this is something that is often done right and it is nothing but healthy for their playerbase.

There is no gray area for palisading thralls, either it is OK or it isn’t. If it isn’t, why has it not been patched in the last 2 years that it has existed, and at the very least why is it not mentioned in the rules? I don’t think it’s a leap of logic or a case of rules lawyering to assume that it has been left in the game as a legitimate tool.

How about making player traps? I’m guessing you would consider that griefing, but it’s a fundamental to base defense throughout history and we have 3 spike pit items… in a world setting with savagery and cannibalism at it’s core. Our attributes literally spell out SAVAGE. At this point I have no idea if this is a legal strategy for base defense, as our base had one and it was deleted.

You can pretend you know about the conflicts that have gone on in our server, like we weren’t fully enclosed by fenced walls or wall torch-spammed to tank our fps into the 20s in our main base, or that we’ve had 50+ of our thralls palisaded, or had bridges built to successfully kite world bosses to come kill our thralls. We were fine to adapt and take these methods as a lesson to protect ourselves better from the possibilities available to a clan at war with another (even though some of those offenses were clearly outlined as against TOS).

Rules clarity is better for everyone, I don’t see any argument that can be made otherwise.

I won’t, but I do want to point out that cheating and griefing are two different kinds of rule-breaking, and everything you pointed out in that paragraph falls under the “were they cheating” question, rather than “were they griefing”.

But yeah, it looks like you and I agree in general.

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@Palm522

and how exactly can someone tell you kited something or instead they actaully spawned near to someone else base? the only thing i can think of is you were caught and filmed, and that got used as irrefutable proof.

I think Funcom probably looked into why the structure was damaged and saw that a purge intended for another clan had caused it.

it is if you build around an obelisk or make the traps with the intent of damaging others experience. making then to loose their stuff.

Obviously building traps to prevent people from accessing world features is against TOC, it is listed there. I am referring to building traps into your own base, which yes would technically be “damaging player experience” if you count imprisonment and death as damaging. But I don’t see how it isn’t completely legitimate.

nope, that is NOT illegal, it could be seen as something an A-hole would do, but it is also a very effective way to take care of abandoned stuff, where is the line there i cant tell, what i can tell you is if they start banning people for that, at least half of the population if not more deserves it.

Tell that to my citation labelled “building abuse”, whatever that means

you can with purges, the game can with purges, (with or without player intervention , purges can target structures that are not the ones they are supposed to target)

nothing you cant deal with , with guards and pve defenders ! part of the magic, and part of the game

This couldn’t be said better. I can honestly say that that I do not know Funcom’s intention for how their game should be played or what they consider “being a dick” on servers where PvP is a core feature.

it could mean you overbuilt, to the point it wsa hurting the server, builkding abuse can be several things.

purges can damage other peoples structures wihtout player intervention. if the structure is in their path, they will attack it.

We had a moderate sized base compared to some of the absolutely massive sprawling bases and highways on the server, and we had almost completely shifted our lighting to gems as Conan’s torch optimization is terrible and is the main contributor to lost performance.

i wish i could give you a better answer, only funcoms know, i am just doing a guessing game with the little i got .

I’m not pretending I know about your server’s conflicts, I’m saying that I don’t care. You were griefing someone. If you were doing it as a response to being griefed, that doesn’t excuse you. Report those who grief you instead of griefing you back.

Hold on, let me pull up something from another thread:

Is this you? I was under the impression that this was you.

If you go onto an official PVE-C server and pull up the server settings, which are freely accessible through the in-game GUI, you’ll see that the player-induced building damage is disabled. Purge-pulling is a way to get around that limitation, just like animation cancelling is a way to get around the stamina cost and/or delays between attacks.

Should Funcom fix this and make the purge attack only the buildings and followers of the clan it’s targeting? Yeah. Does that excuse someone for intentionally pulling a purge to someone else’s buildings? No.

Look, we could play the game of “twist the arguments to support griefing” all day long, but at the end of the day, clan A griefed clan B, on purpose. That’s all that matters.

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you fail to read my posts (Again)

Now you where saying? … please READ REEEEEAAAAD before pointing fingers at other players

how do we call when a purge that is supposed to attack you , spawns insside other building? dev griefing? or the purg spawning close to another base , and it decides to attack someone else building? player fault because they are next to another place?

you must be new to the game if you have not noticed what purges do, how they spawn and where they can spawn.

Funny, accusing me of not reading. Here’s what you seem to have missed:

If you don’t know what “purge-pulling” means, it’s this:

Here’s the deal. I don’t believe you can’t tell the difference. Codemage doesn’t believe you can’t tell the difference. But most importantly Funcom doesn’t believe you can’t tell the difference.

Follow the rules or be banned. If you’re not bright enough to be able to do that, then you’re not bright enough to play the game.

But if we’re being honest, you ARE bright enough. You DO know the difference. But you’re trying to weasel in some sort of loophole because you took some PVP personally. Let’s be honest, that’s exactly what this is all about.

Its not about facilitating sportsmanlike conflict and competition. Its about getting even. Which at the end of the day means YOU are bringing emotion into a GAME. If you were banned for that, then I would say that was done as a favor to you and those around you.

Reflect on that.

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Fixed that for you

this…

SINCE WHEN a purge spawning in someone else base is player fault?

It isn’t. I already pointed out what you didn’t read when you accused me of not reading. I’ll point it out again:

ok why them are you bringing me a quote i did on another thread that has NOTHING To do with this one?

care to explain if there is no accusations implied in your quoted response?

again, I DONT CONDONDE exploiting. but with purges is hard to tell, and that is why i asked how they can tell , if you pulled or not? i mean, if its on the way or spawn inside someone else base that is something you cant blame people with.

the issue here is that there can be a witchhunt, of player just creating reports blaming someone that has NO fault or has done antyhing wrong, specially with how purges spawns , i can see people just lifting reports because someone else purge hit their stuff, you know how dangerous that is?

edit another scenario, you are getting purged by illigors (the dragons) and you are overwhelmed , next to you is a place with tons of guards, and you just take advantage of the present force, to help you with it. then one of the dragons blow up a foundation and some walls crumble, was that griefing or exploiting?

there are WAY too many grey areas, and some of them are not necessarily evil, now if funcom can see if some1 pulled a purge with bad intent, then of course its a good reason to ban someone, but that scenario is dangerous and subjet to interpretation.

and yes i have pulled PURGES with intent of destroying something that a player did , that blocked the sepermeru obelisk, and turned into a death trap for anyone teleporting it, and guess what i am DAMN proud i did it.

Hey, look what I found:

So, the game supposedly ensures that. And you found a way around it. And confessed to exploiting that on purpose.

But I guess my definition of griefing is completely arbitrary.

I’ve supported my claim that I don’t think it’s unreasonable or against the spirit of a PvP server to do anything I’ve done. This is the problem with “you should know better and act with sportsmanship”, your personal ethics and playstyle make you biased to the point of assuming that these methods can’t possibly be intentional or part of the game. I don’t see why any of them should not or could not be. If they aren’t intentional, it’s negligent behavior on Funcom’s part to leave them in the game for literal years while half the playerbase uses them, and leave them out of the TOC. Can you imagine if CS:GO started banning players who bunnyhopping? On the surface it’s easy to say “WOAH YOU’RE OBVIOUSLY NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT” but after a point it becomes a gameplay feature that is widely used and though it may have been made possible unintentionally, it was kept in the game as a tool that again, half the playerbase uses. And you can certainly make that case for both palisades and purge kiting, that they don’t seem to have been conceptualized to do what they do, but that the community has adopted the unintended use for them as a normal part of valid gameplay. I think that’s where your kneejerk reaction that “I should know better” comes from, and you could use the same statement on someone who got banned for bunnyhopping in CS:GO. It’s been in the game for 2 years and everyone knows about it. It is now a feature and you should play accordingly.

And for player traps, there is basically no argument you can give me that makes a strong case that it’s not an intentional possibility and use case for the various trap items in the game, pressure traps, spike pits, palisades go with unclimbable fences like peanut butter and jelly, and for you to tell me that I shouldn’t know if I’m allowed to do it or not because I risk being banned for it, you would be the one playing dumb.