Optimal 3 agents for DPS?

That’s still not how maths calculations work. What counts is the relative power abilities contribution from the total damage dealt. You have things like extraordinary talisman procs, chamber procs, other pistol passives’ procs, etc… that actually lower your power ability’s total damage.

That’s however a wrong statement. The difference you observe by anecdotal tests with different fight durations, RNG etc… cannot be attributed only to the difference in agents. Correlation is not causality. Quartermaster’s output also depends on your crit %-age - if you’re not fully geared and don’t have max crit, Sarah Skelly is most likely one of the best agents for you to have, but don’t attribute that to wrong reasons and to wrong numbers.

At the highest gear available where the differences in DPS are the biggest, agents such as Sarah Skelly, Oleg Yablokov and the quartermaster rarely differ higher than 200-300 DPS, waaaaay far off your stated 3k. If you don’t have that much crit chance, maybe you can have somewhere between 500 and 1k DPS difference, but certainly not 3k.

I don’t have any simulators for pistols mainhand, but i’ve got stuff about hammer, chaos and rifle in one of my spreadsheets that you can play with in this forum’s section, including a dropdown list with agents allowing you to see the DPS differences between agents.

Of course it can’t only be attributed to the difference in agents. However, the difference is consistent during all the test trials (used 15 trials for each agent combination to reduce random elements to a minimum), which does lend credibility to the agent being the main contributing factor, doesn’t it?

When using the Quartermaster, I had an average of 21k dps.
Using Skelly, I had an average of 24k dps

Maybe I’m reading the statistics all wrong, but this is the way it points for me, at least.

It’s all well and good talking about the difference at the highest gear available, but that is only relevant if you actually have that gear. Any changes below that gear will have more impact on the results.

This is why it’s difficult to say which agents are best for your gear/stats/playstyle. In some cases if a person is following the suggestions for BiS agents, it will actually lower their DPS because the facts behind it doesn’t apply unless you have the highest gear. Personal testing is far more preferable.

I have already played around with this a bit, but it seems to me this only show me the specific DPS difference for Hammer/Chaos/Rifle, not Pistol/Shotgun? They could be the same, but then again, they could very well be different. There hasn’t been enough theorycrafting outside metas to validate either way. All you get is a strong ‘maybe’.

No, it doesn’t at all. As said, correlation is not causality. Parsing on world bosses (or even dummies, even if dummies have less external noise taken into account) as a reference to validate a theory is a huge methodological mistake, this is basically how we are lied to with statistics in real life as well, except that here, the data is evidently even more broken.

If you want to know the real difference between 2 agents and don’t want to dive into simulations, you don’t have any choice but to rely on napkin maths, which will already be way more accurate than throwing out random parse claims with no context at all.

Sarah Skelly is obviously better for your build than any crit power agents if your crit chance is too low, there’s no debate in that fact, but there’s no need to invalidate our agent bis lists claimed here since it just takes common sense to conclude that a crit power agent is obviously not a good pick without relevant stats. Moreover, a “bis” list is just that - best in slot, it implies that the agents labeled as bis have been calculated for the best gear available in the game.

No, the changes with a non-maxed gear actually have LESS impact than changes with a maxed out gear, if we’re talking about actual numbers and not relative damage increases / decreases. I can prove it very easily by modifying base stats on my simulators and calculating the damage difference between agents - the less overall stats i’ll have, the smaller the difference will be if the scaling remains the same (meaning, a crit power agent will obviously become way less valuable with less crit chance).

Yes, as i’ve stated, i did not implement anything for pistols. But the purpose was to see what was the damage difference between, for instance, Oleg Yablokov, the Quartermaster and/or Sarah Skelly, for a given build.

For example, for a Maul / Shunt build, Sarah Skelly sims 32 DPS more than the Faction Quartermaster; Oleg Yablokov sims 14 DPS more than the Faction Quartermaster, and Sarah Skelly sims 18 DPS more than Oleg Yablokov - out of a base of ~35k DPS. Here, the difference is so small that, at this point, it can even be attributed to rounding. Also, those differences are multiplied by 1.1 if you take into account Exposed for example.

The biggest difference in agents so far is attributed to druid 10% agents, which beat the 3rd worst agent in a given build by 1.5 - 1.8k DPS.

I’ve took a sim sample with less stats for Maul / Shunt build: 1k combat power, 20% crit chance and 120% crit power, and observed a 206 DPS difference when comparing Sarah Skelly to Faction Quartermaster. I’d argue that hammer’s main bulk of damage obviously comes from power abilities, likely more than any pistols builds considering how the specialty works and how pretty much every active and passive used adds to the power ability contribution: Seethe + Outrage allows for more demolishes and more rage, Brawler’s Belt gives more rage, Pneumatic Maul gives “extra rage”, etc…, where rage buffs the damage of Demolishes; whereas for pistols, the passive for Unload actually buffs proc damage from chambers, which isn’t buffed by Sarah Skelly, other passives also provide additional proc damage that is not buffed by anything, actives like Sixth Line also don’t provide any contribution to the power ability damage but to the proc damage, etc…

We had some decent theorycrafting around pistols on the old forums before they got nuked and before we got these forums. Unfortunately, they’re gone.

Anyway, again, don’t get me wrong, i don’t think that Sarah Skelly is not a good agent pick for your build, but there’s no situation where this agent over the Faction Quartermaster will give you a 3k DPS boost, such a number is purely confirmation bias. With everything i’ve said, i won’t attribute more than 500 to the potential damage difference that could exist between those agents, and that’s if you really have very bad crit chance, because the +300 crit power from the Quartermaster will buff absolutely all your critical damage, including procs’ critical damage, that’s not something that one should dismiss without a second thought.

Also, forgot to mention it clearly, in case you don’t know this, the neck power ability signet buffs the damage from specialties, including the proc damage from pistols chambers. However, agents such as Sarah Skelly who provide % increased power ability damage do NOT buff specialty damage (likely a bug or inconsistency).

@Szalord
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info :slight_smile:

Agents that boost damage why havent i heard of this?

There’s a mod for that. But obviously that only makes sense of you have all of the mob-type agents maxed out.

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Since the damage formula goes as follows: combat power x damage increases x crit coefficient, stacking 1 of the multipliers and ignoring the others is not what will bring you the best results, that’s just basic maths and how multiplication works. Balance is key.

If a 7% damage increase gives you, say, 500 DPS, then if you add another 7% damage increase, it will just give you another 500 DPS, they don’t multiply each other. If you want to multiply your first 500 DPS provided by your first 7% damage increase, you have to add stats to the 2 other coefficients: combat power and crit multiplier.

Indeed, they stack, additively so to speak. So what? The maths just ends up favoring the quartermaster or Oleg, that’s it. Your 3rd agent should be either the quartermaster, or Oleg Yablokov (both are more or less equal for blood mainhand). Besides, Carter has no useful lvl 25 agent damage bonus, so it puts her below the other mentioned agents.

Attack power (and weapon power) is converted to combat power at a rate of 0.075.

For the druid 10% agents, as mentioned above me, you should use the AgentSwitcher mod.

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Not at all, you don’t have to have all the agents maxed out, in fact you can start as soon as you have 1 of them at 50. If you don’t have a matching lvl 50 agent, the mod will switch your swap slot back to your default agent.

General rule: druid agents are better than any other agent for any build, be it for DPS or for tanking, no exceptions. Usual numbers for a maxed out gear and for a 3rd (worst) agent to be replaced by a druid agent: a gain of 1.5-1.8k DPS.

For your build, you’ll be swapping the FQ.

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In general, what would be % gain (or CP/s gain, to compare with Gearycraft doc) from having build-ideal agents VS not utilising agents at all? 7% ones are really expensive/rare, except the two achievement-related, so I’m trying to put that price into perspective.

By my calculation, three optimal Agents for a single-target Chaos Magic build would be an increase of approximately 16.67%; though, the percentage increase can differ from about 15%, give or take a percentage or two, depending on which secondary weapon is chosen. The percentage of increase will differ slightly for other weapons depending on a variety of factors, including the proportion of damage that is dealt by specific abilities and how they’re affected by additive and critical damage values.

I’m not really doing the napkin maths calculations anymore since i’ve got my simulators, unless it’s some really easy & fast calculation for something. DumbOx provided you an answer already.

If, like you said, you put prices of agents in perspective, you’d only need to invest into your dedicated SA 7% agent. The 2 others will be a combination of: Oleg Yablokov (20€, up to you to see if it’s worth it, but in terms of relative price compared to the equivalent of aurum / mof you’d have, it’s not that bad), Faction Quartermaster (free once you reach E5), druid 10% agent (almost free for all of them, grind some extra ODs to get Lady of Mists, skip the 2 booster-exclusive agents), or Sarah Skelly (free).

If you can’t afford the SA agent, just take any additional agent out of the others i’ve mentioned.

If you play chaos mainhand, i believe agents are also easy to come by - one of them being Virgil, he’s virtually free to get.

The Dawn of the Morninglight CE was reduced to €9.99 a while ago.