Pointless whinging thread about swearing filters

Conan Exiles General Discussion
25

Thank you for your viewpoint, but I think a few things need to be clarified, given that you are reacting to views not expressed. I did not equate censoring ‘profane’ words with censoring ideas, what I said was:

You are welcome to view that as the slippery slope fallacy - but my point is not that they are the same thing, but that one has a tendency to lead towards the other. To me, the mentality that pushes for censorship of anything, rather than for self-control, inherently contains the potential to push for censorship of other things (that doesn’t have to be everyone’s conclusion, it’s just how I see it).

Which is precisely why I have made that exact point, in the original post:

and elsewhere:

A legitimate argument for self-control certainly (and a potential argument for such filters) - but the filters also pick up legitimate (non-offensive) uses of words, and as I pointed out in the opening post, are actually ineffective at preventing the offense in the first place (there are multiple ways round them - but, perhaps more importantly, the insulting and offensive sentiments don’t require use of banned words to still upset people - we’ve seen plenty of people insult each other deeply unpleasantly in these forums without falling foul of the filters).

Your final paragraph is actually the one that I find most interesting, and it would seem a valid point - but in reality, comparing social media posting to true writing is apples to oranges, at least based on the arguments of linguistics professors - I saw a really interesting video the other day from youtube channel ‘Today I found out’ on the history of the Emoticon and Emoji (I highly recommend it if you can spare about 20 minutes) - but the gist of the point was that social media interaction, especially ‘chat-speak’, is more an evolution of conversation than it is of writing. In that sense, colloquialisms, abbreviations, and yes ‘bad language’ all play a natural role in conveying tone and meaning. Whether or not to use these options should in an ideal world be a matter of individual choice - and if I chose to write an illiterate rant full of swear words, you would be free to judge me for it and respond as you saw fit (be it with reason, or firing back profanity). Of course, that’s an ideal world - which is why I also pointed out in the original post

This wasn’t just a throwaway line - I truly believe that humans as a species are not civilised enough to be trusted without such filters - for exactly the sorts of reasons that you outline. That doesn’t mean that I have to like them, or think they’re a good thing. But equally, this thread isn’t expected to change anyone’s mind, or to get rid of the filters (I don’t expect it to happen and probably wouldn’t want it to) - there’s a good reason I labelled it ‘Pointless whinging’, it’s not just a joke.

As to taking time over writing - I think you can probably see by my posts that I do exactly that, with the consequence that they are often so long that no one wants to read them… :wink: As for expletives as effective word choice in literature - ‘This Be the Verse’ by Philip Larkin is a quite famous example of ‘foul-mouthed’ literature; and Douglas Adams used the ‘f’ word quite liberally in ‘So Long and Thanks for All the Fish’. I’m sure there are many other examples that could be found, but that’s just two from the top of my head. And the video I mentioned above also made the valid point that conversational speech (and by extension, chat speech) conveys meaning far more efficiently than pure writing - they give the example of having to undertake masters degree level courses to fully unpack the meanings in Shakespeare - who was, in the terms of his own time, often actually making quite crude jokes.

Ultimately, no one is suggesting that expletives are an indication of intelligence, but I disagree that they are automatically ‘lazy’, and feel that they can have their valid place. And that’s without even getting into the question of why one particular word is ‘bad enough’ to be filtered but another isn’t - who decides which words are which? - because there isn’t even international consensus on that. But if I start banging on about that, this post will get even longer.

Thanks for raising some valid arguments - and I hope that if you find things you disagree with in this, that you’ll continue to do so :slight_smile:

26

The c.oo.n was used against Africa American as a substitute for the n word and it was used for rasism but also for that animal :raccoon:

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Actually reminds me simpsons

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I used to know latin language times ago because well needed then, not much tho but there was many names that is banned in nowadays and if u say them u are bad person…

Example is that N word see when actual N humans use it its ok, but they can call us white and yellows, just historical idiots ruined supreme symbols and words and even ultimate languages that other could communicate but now are afraid to use it because ‘‘its not correct?’’

Black panther in latin translates Nig3r Pantera, but because Some low educated guy long time ago called some african black its banned in many countrys

Next could be swasticas - vikings , and half europe used that symbol as health and wealth symbol like enough food harvest for winter and so on, but some idiot in 1945 ruined it

also that mark he did was like ultimate wolrdwide hello say , but because of that guy in 1945 we cant use it… also its in latin …

Manny things are ruined by low educated human beings, so educated ones are kiinda antisocialised because of it… Humans has some sort of genetic code that makes them ruin all good things … thats all…

28

It’s easy to say words don’t hurt people or have power. What’s harder is seeing the real effect that words have on people.

You can call people overly sensitive for not wanting to be called racist or homophobic slurs I guess, but I think it’s bogus.

Go tell the kid who gets called a slur repeated every day that it’s more important that the other kids get to call him whatever they want than for him to be treated like a human being

Beyond that though freedom of speech has never been absolute, and has never applied to other peoples space or property. Freedom of speech only applies to actions the government take against private entities.

If you walk into a church and start shouting “Hail Satan” you are going to be asked to leave. If you walk into a restaurant and start screaming obscenity’s you are going to be asked to leave. Even in a public space the line between free speech and disturbing the peace can be blurry

This is a private forum operated by FC. It’s easy to think of it as a public space but it’s not.

29

Believe me, I’ve been that kid (and I don’t mean that in some ‘it never did me no harm’ sense). I don’t think anyone here has suggested that it is over-sensitive to want others (or yourself) to be protected. (Though I do question what exactly said kid is doing on these forums - but I’m being facetious here, since that clearly wasn’t your point.) Freedom of speech isn’t just some sort of demand for the ‘right to insult’ - though it should also be remembered that offense is taken not given - but rather is an argument for the right to discuss uncomfortable ideas.

On a side note - I don’t see how the profanity filters on any forum actually protect that kid - partly because there’s so many ways round them and partly because you don’t have to swear to upset/hurt someone - it was never insults/swearwords or slurs that hurt me, it was the sentiment behind them.

No. I’m sorry but that is simply a bad argument. I am not American, my opinions are not governed by the US constitution, nor is most of the world. The US constitution enshrines in law a particular instance of free speech, protecting the public from governmental interference - it is not a limiter on the meaning of the concept. Free speech as a principle has nothing to do with government, corporation or anything else, it is a philosophical/ethical position. I believe that bad ideas should be able to be discussed and confronted, others disagree (Halk has offered a couple of good reasons why, for example) - there is nothing wrong with that disagreement and, by having the debate, we are exercising our freedom of speech. This hand-waving away of the argument by equating the belief in freedom of speech with adherence to the limited scope presented by the US constitution is used frequently to dismiss any discussion of free speech as ‘irrelevant’. I’m sorry if this seems I’m coming down hard on this particular point, but I find it one of the most frustrating things that gets raised any time freedom of speech is discussed.

Absolutely. My position is that the decision should be made by the individual, and that they should accept the consequences of that decision. I dislike rules imposed from outside, especially when they are arbitrary (the profanity filter that was pretty much just the starting point for a wider debate is a good example of this arbitrariness - it’s surprising sometimes which words are or are not filtered - very much a US-based, Judeo-Christian approach to what is offensive). This is the same reason that I still wear a facemask when I go to the supermarket (despite rules having been relaxed for a month or more) - because they requested it - but I will not set foot in certain restaurants again - because they demanded that people submit to having their mobile phone tracked by the government.

That said - again, a lot of this is ‘ideal world’ stuff - the best world we could live in would be one that does not need rules, because people simply behave well towards each other - but that is not the world we live in, which is why systems and limitations exist, much as I may dislike them. But instinctive adherence to externally enforced rules is not the same as a conscious moral choice, and that IMO is why these rules need to be regularly bucked against to ensure that we don’t simply allow the instinctive authoritarians to apply ever more stringent rules.

Which is why I made that point in the opening post, and again during the thread…

30

This is one of the most fun threads I’ve seen lately. It’s got everything: level-headed discussion, light-hearted banter, and thought-provoking ideas. I love you people :heart:

Anyway, as far as I remember, the official explanation for the filter – I’m too lazy to look up the actual post right now – was that even though Conan Exiles is a “mature” game, this site hosts forums for several games, most of them not as “mature” as Conan Exiles.

To shed a bit more light on this: the software used for this is called Discourse and, as far as I can tell, it doesn’t support configuring the filters per category, which is why Funcom can’t make the profanity filter different for Conan Exiles.

That being said, it seems this discussion moved away from the technical aspects of profanity filters, so I’d like to contribute my 2 cents.

Should profanity be blocked or censored? Opinions are, as always, divided, but I subscribe to the idea that you shouldn’t teach kids not to cuss, but rather when they should or shouldn’t. In my opinion, it’s just one tiny subset of a more general philosophy of trying to raise critical thinkers.

As it goes for most things, one size does not fit all when it comes to swearing. If my kid stubs his toe and yells “fuсk, that hurts like a bіtch”, I won’t bat an eye. On the other hand, if the extent of a politician’s rebuttal to his opponent’s claims is that “she’s full of shіt”, I’ll be disgusted. It’s not about the language, it’s about its (ab)use. It’s about how nowadays swearing can be seen as a suitable replacement for reasoned arguments.

And it’s not just about replacing arguments with shock-value swear words. It’s also about respect for each other and about the intent to hurt someone’s feelings. Again, there’s a difference between saying that a situation is “fuсking hilarious” and calling someone a “fuсking dumbass”. The latter is only okay when we’re friends and one of us calls the other that in a context where it’s clear we’re just affectionately joking around.

Whenever people say “grow a thicker skin” in a discussion about hurtful words, I always remember Shane Koyczan’s poem “To This Day”:

31

Now thats a loaded statement…

32

Damn dude. That’s a hell of a poem. I got nothing to add.

33

There was probably a better word for that, but I had hoped the meaning would still be conveyed even if the word was somewhat inadequate. Alas, Mark Twain was right when he said that “the difference between the right word and the almost right word is really a large matter – it is the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug”.

At any rate, I can’t find the post with the “official explanation” that I was referring to, and I’m too lazy to dig deeper right now. I’ll leave both the forum archeology and the Quest for the Right Word as an exercise for the reader :stuck_out_tongue:

34

The irony of the statement stands on its own! :stuck_out_tongue:

35

It reminds me of a lot “mature” comic books. Must be 18 or older to purchase, must be 14 or under to fully “appreciate”:upside_down_face:

36

I try to keep my mind firmly planted in the gutter.

37

Let me clarify what I meant when I said “I don’t believe in bad words”
Words only have the power we give them, and I whole heartedly agree with @CodeMage
when he talked about context.

I think education is the thing.

A friend of mine was sacked from his position because he used a word that just sounded like a slur,
I wont try to type that word here, but it was a synonym for stingy. Education would have prevented both his job loss and spared the feelings of the one who took offence.

If we take away a words “power” it’s just another word.
Until that time civility, location and circumstance are paramount.

39

You hit the nail on the head, it’s about education and a certain dose of humility. I know the word you’re talking about and I know its etymology, because languages fascinate me and I love learning about them. I don’t expect everyone to know the etymology of every word – that would be foolish – but that’s where humility comes into play: if you don’t know something, then maybe you shouldn’t jump to conclusions right away. Dig a little deeper, look a little closer, stare a little longer :wink:

Then again, modern society is less likely to reward digging deeper and more likely to reward being the first to come up with a take on something, regardless of whether it’s correct or not. That’s how you get this kind of idiocy:

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It doesn’t matter that it’s wrong, because at some point it became perfectly acceptable to use a wrong argument for the right cause. And don’t get me wrong, the cause is perfectly right in this example, but I’m just too “old fashioned” to think it’s okay to support it with BS arguments.

But now I’ve wandered too far off topic, for which I apologize.

PS: I find it hilarious that the profanity filter didn’t want to let me post that Wikipedia link. Fortunately, URL encoding did the trick :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

40

It strikes me as very nonsensical and inconsistent at times. For example, we can say dick, prick, wanker and ass, but we cannot say [insert term used to denote a female canine] or bugger!? :crazy_face:

EDIT: whoa looks like it has been adjusted, for so long I couldnt say ‘bugger’, which was challenging as I have a tendency say that one often. Take that automated forum censor!

41

Willy wasnt acceptable before either

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I do know that some words are censored not because of the forum host but because FC.

I misspelled their company name by mistake and it was censored. At first I was super confused, because I don’t even realize I’d misspelled it and momentarily thought they just censored their company name which would be pretty funny

It was one letter different, and I’m sure plenty of people have spelled it that way on purpose

43

I swear nearly constantly. When I get wound up, the flow of words is like ambrosia from the septic tank. Across the pasture one year, I saw the neighbor beating his dog on the ground. I lit him up, and his girlfriend, so bad they disappeared from the family ranch for years. It’s only hard times that have brought them back recently, but the dude still wears the stain of my vulgar shame.

There’s a time and a place. Pardon the cliché.

That we don’t light each other up here means we’re probably not going to “go there” on a server. I think for the trade-off in personal expressive freedom, we end up with a kinder community. And that rubs off on server life. I know there are times when I’ve lost my temper in the heat of just kicking some craphead’s butt, but I try to keep the battle to my axe or bow.

44

When I first read that I thought you literally set them on fire!

45

Hey there,

The word filter comes by default with the forum software we’re using, with a couple extra words thrown in there to deter some ne’erdowells. We prefer to keep it on because the forums, we’d like to believe, are a more civilized place than the Exiled Lands. It may be frustrating when it catches some silly words here and there. But as any communications place used by many players, there’s an expectation of some basic level of politeness, y’know.

Swear words are great, and I love to use them when casually talking with friends and, dare I say, even to marketing. But trust me, expletives should not be needed to convey a point.