Interesting that you mention the parallel ongoing discussion, but not stating everything being said there.
My reply on discord to your examples for using lom:
“On archlector you might go lom full time, since you have to be careful with damage anyway in most raids. At bat I never had manaissues, so no need for lom imho. Same goes for Yothians and Ethram. On Leviathan, I’m just too lazy to run in after bombs to trigger purification.”
… “Being usefull once in a while in rare circumstances is no point for being useful in general. That’s why I say: go with one or another, but not with both.”
I’m representing my opinion; I’m discarding assumptions I had, that were wrong and I’m advocating postitions that I’m actually convinced of - or points other’s have convinced me of.
So in general I agree with you, but I still think it’s worth it to go for LoM to have a tool at hand for rare circumstances, rather than having 0.5% more damage for times when everything’s running smoothly. So I’m not your advocate and I’m a bit puzzled, that peops feel offended or are suspecting an agenda in an open minded discussion
No one is offended, but annoyed that rather then putting trust in exp players trying to help you out of goodwill it took 20 messages to reach the same outcome. The last (t6) raid had its peak 2 years ago, while theorycrafting is fun and there might be hidden gems in the game, theres no need to desperately try to reinvent the wheel.
1 Like
why would anyone ever be annoyed by such a thing? just because ‘experienced players’ (whatever that means - who says, im not an experienced player myself?) are saying something, it shouldn’t be questioned? thats a dangerous position. Whole scientific dissertations ended with no (new) result, after years of research and hard work. But maybe they broadened someone’s mind (it certainly did here, at least for me), and sometimes no new findings is a finding in itself. On the other hand a lot of today’s common knowledge was a minority’s opinion once.
Take the heliocentric system, big bang theory or Lumbering Hulk in Pvp: once you were laughed at by coming to minis in ‘pve-spec’ and today its broadly used.
As I already said, theorycrafting is good and there are probably things in the game still that isnt optimal. my point was rather that it seemed you cherry-picked what to adress from ppl questioning your stance, and it felt like you did that knowingly to defend your claims (not using the help ppl try to give you). And ultimately It just dragged out coming to your current view in the matter. Its all good tho
That’s the reason why we have up to 5 specs. I agree that it might make sense to have a spec with LoM, for those rare circumstances, but normally it would just be a waste of points.
True, I think most poms have a specific specc with LoM for fights like zaal (ppl not running out of backlash), entity etc.
but I’m not sure how Spell penetration interacts with debuffing and setting protection values below 0 or reducing the mitigation below 0.
I did some extensive testing on how spell penetration works and how it scales and what the treshold is where it becomes useless. To sum it up, anything in t5 and up is being 100% utilized.
For protection values to reach 0 it needs less than 2670/3003/3670 protection.
2670 = 1250(torment debuff) + 320 (rune) + 875 (x8 t6 gear) + 225 (x4 ashur)
3003 = 1250(torment debuff) + 320 (rune) + 875 (x8 t6 gear) + 225 (x4 ashur) + 333 (secondary force)
3670 = 1250(torment debuff) + 320 (rune) + 875 (x8 t6 gear) + 225 (x4 ashur) + 1000 (main force)
Since T5 protection values of bosses became public and none of them is lower than 4000(Lady Zelandra). Therefore Force of Lightning is a must have ability for any content higher than T5.
I’ll just dump some numbers here and method.
- Used a necromancer.
- Spellweaved for Arcane Surge buff (always inflict maximum damage).
- Increased spell penetration with buffs/perks
- Never changed gear.
With the above I did one hit each and then compared them, noted down the damage done, penetration value and the damage difference between 0 penetration and whatever penetration I had.
Obviously the closer to 0 protection you reach the more impact penetration will have. 125 penetration gave an increase of 2.62% on t1 yakhmar with an unknown protection value but only 1.21% on t5 yakhmar with a known protection value of 7000. The highest protection value I could reach without changing gear when I did this test back in 2016 was 1570.
With 1570 spell penetration I did:
Yakhmar T1 +32.71%
Yakhmar T5 +17.24%
Igneous(12k prot) 11.07%
To sum up. By using force of lightning you can potentially increase the raid dps of 72% if you affect everyone - I’m not 100% sure on this part but you need around 48 000 raid dps to down zelandra in 2 windows, if you only affect 12 people with +3% damage you will be doing ~+14 400dps for 10 seconds, which is “only” +400dps/person for a 30 second window.
Going away from lightning tree on a tos to “increase” your own dps is egoistic and does not help the raid in any way, if you get Lightning Storm Nimbus you will not only increase your own dps as a tos but also the raids dps! Also, it doesn’t actually increase your dps on a ToS to specc general, it’s 100% wasted potential.
9 Likes
thanks for sharing this, fass.
but unless protection and mitigation don’t behave linearily, im still wondering why the following point is ‘obvious’
Obviously the closer to 0 protection you reach the more impact penetration will have. 125 penetration gave an increase of 2.62% on t1 yakhmar with an unknown protection value but only 1.21% on t5 yakhmar with a known protection value of 7000. The highest protection value I could reach without changing gear when I did this test back in 2016 was 1570.
since for me it’s rather logical, that the more mitigation one has, the higher the impact of lowering that high mitigation would be, relatively seen. An example: lets say boss A has 90% mitigation, and your X spell penetration lower the mitigation to 80% → your damage has doubled from 10% to 20%
Now Boss B has 10% Mitigation and your same amount of X Penetration lowers it to 0% (and this might actually not be the case in AoC) you deal 100% damage instead of 90% → 11% damage increase instead of doubling it
it doesn’t behave linearily (as is true for many other games as well), I guess that’s why he said obviously.
ps. you can’t be a serious support pom without lance of mitra fully feated imo
There is a hungarian quote for this:
“Good for everything, but it is not good for nothing.” The second half is a double denial.
The whole quote means about: When you want everything, but (at the end) you get nothing (more).
In english it is like: Good for everything, but good for nothing.
Feats like this, I think the gamers call it: potato build.
When you put points on everything, but actually you will not gain on anything.
My personal experience is, you can not act like a heal bot, and a dps monkey at the same time. Most of the high end tier fights equipped like this. You change cloth, change feat, and do what you should do. It is pointless to do in another way, because or you die first, or others die. On lower tier raids when you geared enough, you can do the dps monkey, and finish in heal and damage at the first place on certain fights.
About LOM, CF and MSE I think the same, that the quote says above.
Less is more!
1 Like
Try to combine this with Light of Mitra + Rejuvenation, if you still have mana issues.
http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v2_11866afc66d5266b5d66bc166906669d066a3066c24
Because it’s obvious. You can go check it out by yourself. Lower our protection as low as possible and see how high your percentage is with a protection buff and then divide the value with the percentage. The lower your total protection is the more each point is worth, so at 76% you would need around 1000 protection to increase it by 1%, while having around 0 it’s around 13%ish if I’m not mistaken.
Obviously, removing 1000 protection from 9000 is going to be a much smaller increase than removing 1000 protection from 2000.