Proposal: separate PVP stats from PVE

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
21

Its fine as is with some balancing/fixes done once in a while (not nerfs).

Conan Exiles can’t be a “great” PvP game unless huge changes are made that will hurt the PvE too much (you can’t really focus on both PvE and PvP to make a separate version, I think this is unreasonable costly and there’re more important thing they need to focus on).

The progress is just to slow, and getting all the requirements needed to engage in “fair” PvP is a whole another story.

Take for example the boxes you need to tick in a game like Rust and Conan Exiles for progress, the Conan list is far longer.

This is just my honest opinion nothing more, doesn’t mean I’m against this idea, its a good idea!

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22

I doubt this will work. SWTOR did this and it was a failure. In their case they used PvP armor.

In the end they scrapped the entire system

In addition people will just stack exactly whats needed for PvP, then advise the whole community what build to use.

All clones.

The server separation of PvP and PvE is the standard for the industry now.

23

Taking what I said out of context does not help your case. Of course everyone uses fighters for base defense, implying that we just use archers is disingenuous, but nice try.

Try giving them real weapons and armor, and placing them so they have line of sight. Then stock them with poison arrows, instead of letting them use the stock flint arrows.
Sounds like poor planning to me.

Really?

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24

Really?

it probably had some PVP guy killed too many times.

Taking what I said out of context does not help your case, but nice try.

Getting killed doesn’t mean it’s another player that killed the guy. Maybe the noob got killed by a Thrall of another player with that weapon, since no one has ever been dumb enough to use it himself.

And, speaking of archers (again) I think you start with the assumption that I never did all these things.
The example of 120 damage was made with standard flint arrows, yes, but using other arrows what good does it make ?

With Dragobone Arrows damage become 180 instead of 120 … wow, now it kills the fu**in wolf in 5 shots (that still always miss the target) … and also it is consuming ammo (while fighters do not consume anything).

Wanna talk about poison arrows ? I guess you are talking of Set Arrows, which apply Poison:

The Poison status effect is a debuff that causes 2 points of damage every second for 10 seconds. Each time poison is applied, the timer resets. Can stack up to 10 times and its damage ignores armor.

taken from here: Poisoned - Official Conan Exiles Wiki

Honestly, I’m not sure it applies the same damage to NPCs, and I’m not sure it’s updated but … lets be honest, please: poison is overrated in CE.

Archers that apply poison. Yeah, I think better than normal arrows, but they are still crap.
1 Fighter will outdamage 4 Archers by 3 times, poison or not (which means that 1 Fighter is worth 12 Archers).

Now, please, explain me what is your definition of “useful”. Cause I really cannot see what good they are for base defense. It would be better with a nice video of you showing how your Archers fare against a purge. I want to see them killing a single NPC, that would be enough for me.

Also, and most important, why you are against this proposal, again ?

25

The thread’s basic idea has merit. “Balance”, whatever it’s supposed to mean, is much more important in PvP than in PvE. However, it’s not going to be as simple as just making different modifiers for different servers.

As Taemien pointed out, PvP servers still need PvE content. Someone has to harvest resources to build bases, slay NPCs, complete dungeons and craft equipment before you can destroy their base and steal their stuff. And that someone needs valid tools to play PvE content on a PvE server.

I guess you could make separate modifiers for “archer ranged damage vs. players” and “archer ranged damage vs. NPCs”, just like there are many damage sliders in the server settings already. But that won’t help much because the real challenges those idiots have are shooting into their own crenellations; running into melee range and swapping for a melee weapon; shooting in the wrong direction; and not shooting at all.

These days, if I catch a T4 archer, I give them a melee weapon and train them as melee fighters. And then I place them as decorations in my base.

26

If you want to seperate pve and pvp they just need axtra options in server settings
IE archer damage x, enable sword of crom etc
Then server admins can do whatever they like, have easy mode, one shot bosses whatever they like…

The base game and official needs to be balanced as a single unit for all game modes like it or not.

27

Oh, and most importantly: once the game modes are separated, they could make separate forums for PvP and PvE too. That could well be a more impactful quality-of-life update than anything they could make in the game.

28

I’m going to add to what I said earlier: PVPers PVE more than PVEers do. PVEers don’t need to replace buildings nearly as much and need to farm materials for them less often. While PVPers need to replenish not only building materials but the amount of consumables they use on a regular basis to keep an edge. I don’t see many PVEers running a full side of buffs for even boss hunting. Some may, but I wager most don’t.

29

PvE is a part of PvP as well as RP.

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30

why? I never understood why balance isn’t just a game thing. In PVE, if you’re playing and the bosses are push overs, what is the freaking point of the game then? It’s just SIMS fantasy.

This is a very easy question to answer. NEVER has segregation EVER been a good thing for the community at large. It’s basically saying ‘I’m tired of dealing with these other guys so i’m going to move over here because I don’t care what they have to say’. It promotes intolerance, in general, and weakens the game brand as it’s now split into two games. Don’t believe me? Here is a quote…

So the end game in all of this is just two separate games that just focuses on what two sides want…which weakens the game further and FC corporate can just write off both far easier than the 1 combined game…all because you all don’t like having to compromise. Yeah this is why I fight it.

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31

You’re definitely not wrong.

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32

In PvE, you can have a different rock-paper-scissors kind of balance than in PvP. It’s not just a scale between easy and difficult, it’s also about different weapons having a different effect on different opponents. If a mace is more effective against rocknoses than a sword, but weaker against wights than a sword that’s not a problem, that’s a challenge that is designed to be easier with certain tools and harder with certain tools.

But if a particular weapon or combat style or spell or other feature is stronger against players than other similar tools, that becomes a problem. Suddenly you don’t have a situation where you have specialized tools for a given job, you have a “meta”.

Take damage-over-time effects, for example. A couple of stacks of poison against a boss monster is hardly going to make a dent in their health pool, whereas the same couple of stacks of poison is brutal against a player.

Also: the rocknose won’t come to the forums to complain how the mace is too effective against it - but players will if they feel that a given weapon is too strong against them.

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33

Let’s be honest here! Different mechanics already exists for these two versions and already working! Adjustment already exists on mechanics! The items that really hurt us when changed are less than 20 and maybe even less than 10 too!
I know it is work and not just chatting “easy minded” on forums, but when you know that this will please your players it’s something you must consider, isn’t it? Legendaries on pve should have their old glamor! I should be happy when I gain the act of violence, the lifeblood spear, the love tap, the anhilator, Yogs touch, etc…
I shouldn’t bother what happens on pvp, because I choose pve! And people between these modes shouldn’t have to disagree for their modes! It is something that needs consideration! We deserve to be happy playing this game!

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34

Hmmm ok, that’s something to think about it, but … why having to compromise when you can have both parts happy ?

And honestly, having 2 separate forums for PVP and PVE is something I’ve been needing without knowing: not having PVP guys saying “the game is good as it is” on every proposal is … heaven ! Geez, I think that would be therapeutical.

BTW (serious mode): it’s not like it’s not possible to compromise … it is possible, just not easy.
Balancing PVP and PVE without separating them means that half the game has to be written the new.

Archers are the perfect example (yes, again …): you cannot make them more powerful than that, or PVP would be unplayable.

YET, if you leave them as they are right now, they are perfectly useless for PVE.

How can you balance that ?

35

Everyone spent money on the game some more than others but money none the less. What you are asking knowing this company and how it goes about its business just won’t happen… it’s really as simple as that.

What may happen down the road is just a fade out of pvp all together and I’d say we are on that road. So if you are patient and realize players aren’t in control of the future of this game, you may get what you are asking without it officially happening. Which is a shame

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36

With deadly archers? Why not? It would actually mean shields are important or you have to GASP take cover.

My point being is that PVE and PVP should have the same game physics and damages. This idea that we need +100 swords of slaying for PVE and NPC’s to have pillows for PVP is just silly.
Swords hurt, spears hurt, arrows hurt…one could actually say they were staples in killing things for thousands of years.

On the flip side, fighting an 18 ft tall 30 foot long dragon is probably not the smartest thing to do by yourself and, yes, should be reserved to those that are peak combat ready and fit.

Yea…and? It should! Look new content should mean a complete and utter review of all interactions and possibly redoing a large amount of the original to make it work the right way. Most of the complaints, exploits, and general bugs come from this idea that you can just frankenstein a good concept together and maintain cohesiveness as you continue to add content…my stance is no…just no. The entire game does need to be reviewed like new again. Old antiquated coding can be redone and streamlined. If FC is truly serious about the ‘game as a service’ concept then they have to spend the resources to continuously revamp and redo it all. This 3.0 was a great thing in this because it showed me they are serious about it by revamping the entire attribute and build systems. I hope to see more of this. The raid system needs redone. Clans and just player interactions in general need to be seriously looked at again. The mesh needs a revamp because of all of the abuses it has gotten over the years…it needs revamped badly. The very nature of PVE and PVP needs redefined. the 3 types of play should get revamped completely and serious discussiong at FC corporate needs to be done on what precisely is the intent of each play type. A direction to provide the players so that they can understand the vision and not just be left in the dark and make up stuff that they believe is what its all about.

All of this needs to be done so I totally agree it needs to be seen as new…that’s what true success is though. Fundamental changes that correct the past, troubleshoot the present, and pave the way for the future.

37

Considering that the best argument against my proposal is: “it’s too much work, Funcom will never do it !” … I don’t think this proposal would have a better future.

Ideally, you’re right.
Even tho I still think that by separating both system all the variables can be balanced better.

But yeah, ideally the game can be rebalanced and rewrote. Pratically, it would be a MASSIVE work and I don’t really think it will be ever done.

My proposal is pretty simple to apply and do not require that much work (despite most people think it would) … worst part is having to update 2 versions with every release, but since the difference between the 2 will be limited to stats and effects of some things, it would not be a problem in most cases.

38

I think the best idea on this subject is to simply remove PVE settings entirely. Don’t need to separate PVP from PVE if everyone is PVP. No more segregation of players. The ultimate form of Conan Exiles Players are Conan Exiles Players. Simply allow players to administer themselves. One system only to balance.

Non-confrontational prior PVE players can simply be protected by the self described honorable players and keep the barbarians (dishonorable ones) at bay. Would definitely be an interesting experiment. See if some players are as ‘good’ and level headed as they claim to be.

39

Similarly, no need to separate PVP from PVE if everyone is PVE. On top of that, there would be no more whining about metas and no more calls to nerf everything PVE players enjoy. Plus, who’s more likely to spend money on cosmetics in the Bazaar, PVP or PVE players?

:stuck_out_tongue:

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40

On this I agree. It would be an interesting experiment.

Unfortunately, my prediction on the result of said experiment is that it would let the “barbarian hordes” an opportunity to ruin everyone’s gaming experience, rather than just those people who opt in to play on PvP servers. Although I don’t think the “honorable (PvP) player” is quite a mythical creature, they’re still about as common as an honest used car salesman. And in any case they’d have their work cut out for them, as it takes a lot less effort to ruin someone’s fun than it takes to prevent someone from ruining other people’s fun.

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