PVP players should raid sandstone bases

I did not mean to imply you were suggesting bullying, I was merely pointing out my personal experiences.

The big difference between a sandbox game and an MMO seems to be that there are safe zones in most MMOs where you can level up before you go out and fight, whereas in CE you are tossed into the mix immediately, and for solo players without friends to help them, they really are at a huge disadvantage in the beginning, and they are at the total mercy of players who may have a mean disposition.


It’s not a bad idea I think but it doesn’t solve the issue of PVP being something you have to wait until the endgame to do. It just accepts it and makes it official.

You’re right, but this isn’t an MMO. You seem to be saying that the MMO way is better and there should be safe zones? I think this is Conan! I bought the game expecting a brutal no-holds-barred experience. The whole of PVE is a safe zone in that sense. Am I the odd one out here?

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I think it’s moreover the risk vs reward thing, @Firecrow. Noobs can raid noobs, sure, but there’s very little reason to do so since even the tiny amount of effort it takes to farm up bombs to hit a sandstone box isn’t worth the stuff that noobs have. In terms of fighting in the wild, it’s risky, so if the risk isn’t worth the reward, then it’s best to just teabag-of-peace and move on. A t3 base poorly built is a learning experience. A T1 base expertly built but with nothing in it is a speed bump.

Edit: I know that noobs can use Orbs instead of bombs, but the amount of effort it takes to get a T4 alchemist that can make them PLUS the volatile glands needed means it’s out of reach for most new players. I’m totally a fan of a more conflict-oriented early → mid game, but as it stands, it just isn’t feasible. This is, of course, all my own opinion so if your opinion differs, that’s ok ^^ I just wanted to voice my thoughts

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All alchemists can make orbs I thought? I dunno it’s been so long since I’ve made one.

If it’s an issue of risk vs reward, that would indicate to me even more that it’s the players that are the problem. People are signing up for PVP when their heart isn’t in it. They don’t want to fight unless they’re going to win. It’s just a game! It’s a safe space to lose. Not saying you’re like this, but if you’re right then it seems most players are.

When I first PVP’d back in the 90s in online games, the mentality is that you played in a non-PVP environment first. Thus there was no such thing as a newbie in PVP. My first taste of PVP in a MMO setting was Everquest. There if you were low level, you had to watch for certain races in your town/city. For example if you were a Wood Elf in Kelethin and a Dark Elf or Ogre showed up, you had to run and hide. Sure you could run to a guard. But if they were level 45-50 (or higher depending on expansion), they would simply kill the guard.

One of the issues I see with more modern gamers is this expectation of ‘fair play’. They want their PVP to be highly regulated, either by the game mechanics themselves or by community practices. This unfortunately turns PVP into PVE with extra steps.

Like looking at this thread, I see a number of issues with the community. Sure some of it might be some carebears (if people are going to use casual and hardcore, I’m gonna use the old carebear term) chiming in. But many actual PVPers have been so indoctrinated by WoW’s Non-PVP system (aka battlegrounds) that they think that is more or less the standard. Its not. Nor should it be.

For example, the idea you shouldn’t take a whole clan and wipe some solo player out. We gotta protect the solo players! In a multiplayer game? What? That does seem to be some sort of prevailing mindset, the solo player must be nurtured, they must be protected, they must be coddled, at all costs.

I don’t understand why it is wrong to see smaller groups of players or even solo players as a source of tribute. What is stopping that solo player from going to one of these larger clans and asking for mercy, requesting that they leave them alone in exchange for giving them a portion of resources found. That my friends is true PVP. But for some reason none of you will usually do it. Some of you might, but I guarantee most are thinking that’s below your dignity.

You came off the cross naked, if you want dignity, you gotta earn it.

The way I see it, a player is a player. Level 1 or 60 doesn’t matter to me. I may not consider raiding a sandstone hut for the reasons Rekt gave just above this. But don’t think that wouldn’t change in a heartbeat if there was any inkling of thought of any sort of underhandedness, betrayal, etc. Because one thing I have learned about people in general, the world over (I’ve been on several different continents), is that people love to take Kindness as Weakness.

Does this mean I’m a ruthless noob killer in these games? No, I usually somewhat ignore them (with a caveat). Despite my forum persona (at times), I’m usually one of the more helpful and nicer people in these sorts of games. At least until crossed. Then you get to see some real nastiness until reoperations are paid in full. Course when that happens then its as if nothing happens.

No grudges, no silly duels. General courteous until provoked, then scorched earth until debts are paid, then back to normal. That’s how PVP really ought to be.

I would say this. Instead of talking about noobs being wrecked by elites, why not let your actions speak instead of words? Words don’t mean anything in PVP, only actions. If you see an alpha clan picking on peeps in sandstone, zero them out. Reduce every building they have until you can walk over every space they have without having to jump or climb. Otherwise, I doubt you’re being serious here and are just trying to sit on a high horse of no substance.

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See I’ve never played an MMO in my life. I played fighting games in the 90s, then FPS in the 2000s (I’m terrible at them) then I discovered Conan PVP.

I’m only now starting to realise that lots and lots of Conan players have come from MMOs, and are operating on a whole set of assumptions I have no idea about. They’re expecting MMO norms and I’m expecting Hyborian Age norms.

@Taemien you and I have very similar perspectives on this.

Also it would seem that when I said this:

I was wrong. It might be unreasonable to assume that :sweat_smile:

Does it help that what I said applied to Age of Conan, a Hyborian Age MMO? :grin:

The issuebisnt to ra8d or not to raid a sandstone. The issue is the game i s so imbalanced ince 1 side has epic gear that raidiing a sandstone is way to easy amd 90% a d…k move and building up to retaliate is to much a chore when some one does it to you, that most dont want to grind back up amd just leave the game all together for a more rewarding game time some where else 40 hour job + 40 hours of must play time ruin any “game time” idea CE had. Make it where on pvp servers the epic gear is a minor advantage and not a kill shot to new/scorched clans and then talk about pvp as a real game style on CE that can sustain a player base.

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How difficult would it be to set limits of PvP interaction based on highest level person in clan? You can’t attack anyone within 5 levels of your highest level.

Why would you even bother with a level limit?

It takes a few hours to get to 60 at 1x. Most can do it in a few sessions, many can even do it in a single one. If those rates were 0.1-0.2x you might (keyword, MIGHT) have a point, but they’re not default. So in any server that this would matter on, they can just mod in the suggestions you all are making on limits by level.

Your super casual, keyboard turning, ability clicking, newbie player can do it in 10 hours. And that person (on the account of the former descriptors) is likely not PVPing. Most of you are doing it in half of that, or better unless distracted by building something silly.

Besides, level limits in PVP are heavily exploitable, I would know, I’ve done it before.

Ah, this one sees a fundamental issue!

Not everyone plays on PvP because they want to PvP.

This is counter intuitive, but give this one a moment.

This one owns a Howdah Gun. A beautiful and lethal work (that also does not meet the definition of firearm in this one’s administrative district) that is much treasured. It was acquired at moderate expense.
Now, this one never wants to use the howdah gun for it’s intended purpose… but this one wants to have that option.

Not everyone on PvP servers wants to engage actively in PvP. But everyone wants to have it as an option. This one has met several refugees from PvE servers who were just sick of grotesqueries and the equally unseemly cesspits they had cluttered less combative servers with. They did not want to off other players, in general, but they wanted to have that on the table if things became otherwise untenable.


No-one is more behind this idea than me. But I’m not confident that will ever happen, it’s too disruptive to the PVE community. So maybe we can try changing ourselves and our expectations in the mean time?

@LostBrythunian first of all, that’s an interesting, almost eccentric thing to own. I love it :face_with_monocle:


I understand this. I mostly play this way myself, getting revenge rather than starting fights, unless someone is really being unpleasant. The thing is, I don’t think people should be shamed for aggressive PVP on a PVP server. In the years I’ve been playing I’ve seen the attitude shift. People used to attack from day 1, and if you complained (I never did, but saw it happen) got a “suck it up bro this is PVP.”

Now that’s not nice. It’s a toxic way to express yourself. But the reverse, of assuming everyone is PVE until proven otherwise, I think is definitely contributing to the problems of PVP in CE. Nowadays, attacking someone unprovoked before they’ve established still happens, but is normally seen as toxic.

I don’t think the action itself is toxic - if it is, then there’s no chance for pre-endgame PVP! And then… well as we can see, PVP becomes too high risk/reward, and devolves into offline raiding and people only fighting when the odds are heavily in their favour.

I think we need a middle ground. Creating a character on a PVP server should be understood to be accepting unprovoked attack at any time, without getting angry at the people doing it. Not everyone wants aggressive PVP. But aggressive PVP shouldn’t be seen as bad either!

I wish I could express myself in fewer words, but I’m not good at it. I like to be clear. It should be OK to raid someone, and if they complain you DON’T say “suck it bro welcome to pvp.” You say “sorry, this is a PVP server. I won’t hit you again if you just want to chill. Do you want your stuff back?” If the game isn’t going to change then the players might have to.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I tried that many times after I got raided. I even said specifically what I want back, but no go.

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Yes I think it’s a two way street. Aggressive PVP players should understand and accept that not everyone wants to play their way, and that’s fine.

…but on a PVP server, it is the server mode set aside to accept their style of play, after all. People who play on PVP servers non-aggressively should accept that they might be attacked, and not get up in arms about it.

I think if these two things happened then people could fight at all stages of the game with less actual bitterness, and PVP servers would really come to life.


I think we had a beautiful post about 1 month ago why pvp if you are pve? In this post, this matter had covered beautiful, many pve players have good explanations why, me too. There are things in this mode, special things, that you cannot understand them if you won’t participate in a pvp server. Other than that multiple items, gear etc is for pve reasons and the same for pvp reasons. In pvp one of the things I like the most is that you hurt your own thrall in fights and I wish I had an option in my single player my thrall to hurt me too on fights, but that’s just me.
I met a lot of pve admins on the past running pvp servers, these admins were THE BEST. They were only participating in the pvp aspect of the game only on Arena challenges and ofcurce they were playing pve on their pvp server for the difficulty of playing pve on pvp. Simply marvelous persons.
Back to the topic.
Agressive pvp is one think, toxicity is another. However if sometimes we cross lines, then the translation of our action will take another meaning. This is the part of freedom @erjoh tried to explain I believe.


I think I’ve got it. It’s so simple.

The honour code shouldn’t be “don’t raid sandstone, solos, or new arrivals.”

It should be “don’t raid PVE players.”

We all know lots of people play on PVP servers but don’t really want to do PVP. That’s fine, welcome to them! The more the merrier. Let’s not raid them, they can be the peaceful clans. But how do we find out if someone is PVP or PVE oriented? We ask them. Or raid them and see how they take it. If they say “hey, I’m only really into PVE at the moment” say no worries, give them back their stuff and that’s that.

So you’re welcome to come and play PVE on a PVP server, but you might get a baptism of fire. Or accidentally be killed or lose a thrall every now and then. That’s the price and you should take it in a spirit of fun.

And you’re equally welcome to do PVP on a PVP server but targeting PVEers is dishonourable. Against other PVPers though go crazy, have limitless war at all tech levels as the game intended. What do people think of that?

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No they are dangerous (I am) for the pvp server, why?
If a pve player is in favor of some clans he can give them an incredible boost. I remember once I gave to a raided pvp clan 100 dragon horns, 500 dragon bones, 20 berserkers and the list go on. I just never provided, brimstone, my base had only what I needed and demon blood.
If a pve person fix an open base to shelter others, with open doors and looted weapons, armors and tools in the charity chests, but favors this way everyone, it’s ok, still the time came that I helped other pvp clans, because wantit or not with some people you create a more friendly relationship in the server, but this was not fair for the others. So I decided to leave this role in pvp servers and play as a farmer and defender for just one clan.
Yet I really miss that role in pvp servers, I was busy every single f… g day :rofl::rofl::rofl:.


Dammit. You’re right. Although, that would be an example of dishonourable PVE play, no? Breaking the code like that could get your PVE protection revoked!

This code is getting more complicated already :laughing:

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This one’s collection is quite eccentric.
Not unlike it’s owner.
The particular item is a minimally improved version of a museum piece this one saw in earlier years. There is something bizarrely satisfying about owning an ur- version of the sawed off double-barrel.

Likewise, this one has never mastered brevity, much less in the realm of text. We use the correct number of words to placate our concerns about being misunderstood. It’s a balancing act, and nothing that one should be ashamed of.

If it were not for the clutching of pearls, this one imagines text based exchanges would be lessened by about a quarter. Someone will always be there to pooh pooh whatever is being done.
In the case of entry point raids… It really does become a question of what the purpose is.
Why does one raid?
In the case of low zone shenanigans, it obviously isn’t for spoils. Even at equal levels, it’s simply less efficient than the other available options. It is a desire to fight. Which is fine. It is after all a PvP server… But we all know the spin up speed to get to the good stuff is slow. Raids at early levels are significant set backs to those who are raided. For some, this smells like griefing or some bizarre hazing ritual (this one knows it is not, but the assumption is easy to understand).
If the system in place offered more reward for early level PvP (as is seem in games like e.g. Rust) it would be different. It would incentivize the process and the risk/reward balance would be even at low levels. Successful base defense would not just mean a lesser resource sink, but instead might mean some actual gains.
The other concern addressed extensively already is the impact on new to the game players. They are already dealing with a well documented slow burn to adequacy. They also lack existing investment. A major set back early on is plenty of reason to just leave the server if not the game. Especially as they know there are no server wipes, so once someone is ahead of them, they will be behind until they make it to max level to even begin to play catch up. This is complicated by the whopping two static maps to choose from. Meaning that all the best spots are already documented thoroughly and thus claimed.
These factors all combine to the position that the game does not begin in earnest until level 60.

On clean servers, this one would find PvP from level 1 perfectly reasonable. With routine wipes, this one would not see early set backs as crippling and serving only to delay one’s ability to participate in the “real game”. With a less already infamous player base (not the ones posting here, but we all know what this one speaks of) the exasperated assumption of griefing would be less prevalent.

Also, there is a large difference between early Siptah and early Exiled Lands.
Siptah has been much faster to get on one’s feet and dig into the good stuff. The layout is simply more conducive for quick leveling and agile acquisition of personal power (assuming RNGesus blesses one with a shovel) while more restrictive on where one can farm top tier thralls.
Exiled Lands is fairly linear in it’s zones and what is available there. Black Ice (for example) comes from a specific zone (with actual survival concerns largely absent on Siptah) that one has limited paths to get to from the starting line and it’s 6 slots that all dump onto the same watering line where one drinks before going into sandstorm and cooked exile land. To say nothing of the abysmal npc item drops on EL (enemies that drop falcata, orbs, feasts, and alchemical base on Siptah have a handful of grass in their pocket and a stone club in EL) That linear schema is more accessible for PvE, but is more than slightly irksome in PvP.

TLDR; Early game grind sucks in PvP and there aren’t good rewards for winning besides. Until that is fixed, anything that slows someone from getting to the “real game” may be seen as needlessly cruel.


Noob River is mine alone… you shall all be raided sand stone or not! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH