Saga of Zath Feedback


Hi everyone, let’s keep personal attacks and petty squabbles out of the Feedback thread. Please take it to private messages if you really feel the need to argue with each other.


exactly. my saga character (so, about 2 months old), is almost full aa on the pve side, and with a lot of points on the pvp side too. and guess where i got most of that xp? doing 6 man dungeons. :wink:

so, new players should focus more on learning the game, not on getting good gear for almost no effort.


Lets be serious here, RF didn’t kill nothing. Guilds still do their raids and everyone can do his 6 men dungeons as he like. Never heard about a guild raid being cancelled because players were in RF. If you talk about pug raids, well that’s another story. I used to join pug raids few years back, but after afk raidleaders, yes afk leaders in a normal raid, ninja looters, several wipes on t1 bosses in raids where players were at least t3 geared (before RF was launched), not to mention t2, t3, t3.5 raids, i did not joined again and never will.


Yes it does, 95% of the dungeons played atm is monestery + palace, wonder why.

New players in the game is not learning the game from scratch, they level 80, join RF right away, skipping the natural learning-curve that was a ladder in order to reach high tier loot in the past. Thus killing the inflow of new players entering those guilds that do real raids.


What I have seen is a lot of serious people doing RF to get their tokens and gear up :smiley:.
On the other hand I have seen “leechers” that want their tokens for free :face_vomiting:.
Problem is, there is no way to vote them out (and lets not kid ourselves, such a system would be abused too :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:), so they have to be caried by the “good guys” that want their tokens :weary:.

For a new saga-server I would suggest something different: Change cooldowns on lower tier raids.
Since T5/T6 are still top tier, keep those at their weekly reset.
T1 a 4 hour reset.
T2 a 9 hour reset
T3 a 18 hour reset
T3.5 a 36 hour reset
T4 a 54 hour reset :thinking:

Maybe even increase token/item drops slightly.
This way Raidleaders can organise when they are off cooldown, people can join (if they like the RL :relaxed:) AND raidleader has the option to kick people from the raid that are not participating :exploding_head:.


As I always said and pointed out, it’s not out of a mentoring spirit that some players, who believe themselves to be pros, freely bestow their knowledge to who they see as their underlings, it’s that they are so ticked off that other players having seen the play pattern on the server and the time constraints may have legitimate grievances and are concerned that all the gruelling effort in attaining gear might be rendered null and void if someone else gets gear for “almost no effort”.

After all, what’s it to you how another player gets their gear unless you feel you are being somehow hard done by. So really it’s all about some players minding the business of everyone else. It can’t be about maintaining the fair play of the server after all as that is finite, well in truth all servers are.

I believe that some players flagged some interesting points about the server in the hopes of getting a response from a developer not from those who seemed to have taken it on board to be Saga defenders, I ask again… what’s it to you???

Ask yourself, does your concerns come from a predominantly selfish standpoint, that your efforts are cheapened by the merest hint that some are asking for a change of rules?


Unlike John Nash’s Governing Dynamics I think in this game it is more beneficial to do what is best for yourself and not mind your neighbour. What you are talking about is having control to boot others off an rf and while this may be used with good intentions to begin with, it will without doubt be abused and soon players will be booted simply for not agreeing with you.

Simple. If you are in an rf that has leechers…leave and join another.


You don’t really get the point, do you?

Nowdays is really easy to get decent gear with the natural game progression, which is:

  1. Reach lvl 80;
  2. Get decent blue gear from trader;
  3. Go to Khitai and start gaining ranks in factions;
  4. Get faction blue gear and start doing dungeons;
  5. When you have decent epic gear from dungeons, join raids.

It’s something that can be achieved in a couple of weeks of gameplay. And has the benefit of teaching your class and it’s also much more fun that the crappy raidfinder that we have now.

And, just for the record, I’m not really jealous that the grind is reduced. Quite the opposite, because, you know, I have more than 20 characters, and on several of them I skipped completely the dungeon part, and went to t4 directly in blue faction gear.

Also, if all you want to do is solo play, faction blue gear is good enough to do everything. Even the hardest quests in Dragon’s Spine. If you can’t, it’s mostly LTP issue. :wink:


This is an MMORPG that is build around progression, in content and gear. This is not a kids game at school where everyone gets a participation token. You would not vote for every player getting 20.000 cash out of the bank every round in Monopoly, do you? Games come with rules, and staying inside a given ruleset is the heart of and the reason why we even play games.

The curve has been lessen a lot over time for new players to faster catch up with friends, guild, whatever (mostly because more and more veterans did not play the lower content anymore, so there was nobody to play with and learn from for new players). This brought good effects (->new or returning players had much more options what they want to play, veterans can bring alts to a needed gear/aa level very fast), but it brought bad effects, too (-> content being neglected, faster gearing than learning).

The raidfinder pushed the border for free loot (read: beeing afk) from T1/2/3ish (World Bosses) to T4 (which is still the best gear ingame besides T6, which is superior and the reward for beating the hardest content, hence only owned by very few harcore raiders). This is of course something all players should and do care about and have an opinion about, because guess what: We all have to and want to play with our “neighbours”. In a game that is literally all about progression it is a huge problem if this progression is just cut of, with a shortcut to the second best option. I am not coming of a place of envy or bitterness, as @byrnensorg thinks, because guess what: All this issues decrease my own playing experience, too. I like this game, I care about it, so it is only natural that I am very interested in a discussion about its problems.
And of course it is a huge problem, too, in a game focused so much on socializing, if you can not jugde the players experience by his or her gear. And another problem is that a lot of people, mainly new players, mix up the difference between owning gear vs. skill/experience. Next problem is that the raidfinder is a place without any concept to deal with any of its problems. A vote/kick option works in other games, why not here? Like, 75% of the raid have to vote yes to kick a player? How do you define abuse? (This is a crucial question.)

Not so simple: Leechers and trolls destroy the gaming experience of other people, why are you ok with a concept that punishes the people who suffer from them (30 minutes cowards buff) instead of putting a system in place that punishes trolls and leechers?


I ask you to read again. What i said :

Thus I am not in favor of a mechanic that would allow to kick people from RF and you will have to take the bad with the good.
Or indeed leave and take a 30 minute penalty for leaving :sob:


I don’t see how it could be abused, if you put the threshold high enough (let’s say 75% of the raid).
I mean, it would take a really bad reputation to have repeatedly at least 75% of the people wanting to kick you out of the raid! LOL


Ok, so why be so bothered about how others get, or want to get their gear, that’s best left to a discussion between them and the devs, don’t you think, I doubt very little will change anyway at this point so why waste effort.


Kantakwa already replied, and I will just quote him here:


By playing in an RF with a bunch of as you say “leechers” are you not decreasing your own playing experience, there will always be leechers in this type of game and you nor anyone else can change that. Indeed we all have to play with our neighbours in this game from time to time but what I said was playing to serve your best interest first, not being concerned about what other players are getting out of it

This is still a game, the main point of which is furthering and improving your OWN character. I am not voting that everyone gets instant rewards, I am just listening to the points some players raised. But you are proposing a change in the RF booting dynamics, how’s that not wanting to change the rules… to suit your own playing experience?

Just say that around 75% of an rf comes from known guilds and familiar players, well right there they could quite easily boot players off who did not conform to their exact fighting strategy. Or they simply didn’t like them. That’s how it can and would be abused. It seems to me you want to pull that pvp mentality of destroying your opponent and institutionalise it in pve. I expect you would also like a tag system that says who initially wanted to boot that player off so that you could be seen as the AOC police, it’s no good unless everyone knows who is maintaining law and order right?


30 mins is nothing compared to the length of an average RF. So you get a coward buff. If everyone who wanted a better RF just left if they seen a leecher moment there would only be leechers left, wouldn’t that punish them?

What is happening at the moment and this is certainly not new players doing this, is when the rf is looking even remotely not going the way they want the pros get going and afk or vote retreat, that’s much better of course!!!


Then why have it in at all if it wont make that much difference. Seems like power and control to me. Get two sizeable guilds in an rf (presently online) and there’s your 75% and sod anyone else, there, that’s how it could be abused. You have some voting retreat at the first sign of trouble and these are not new players by any stretch… it’s in everyone’s nature to abuse the rules.


Allow us the ability to form a raid of our own choosing, then queue up for Raid Finder and get our own RF instance with just the queued raid and problem solved for many of us. That way the leechers, trolls etc would have a much harder time getting a RF pop.


and here that you are wrong and do not understand, unjust rules, rules that reward those who work and those who do not work, unfair rules create horrible precedents that kill the game.
It is already increasingly rare to find groups 6 men (except flame-vortex-palace) and lower-level raids and pugs.
If the game promotes and rewards for doing nothing, more and more people will do it this way and then you have to adjust the game so that it allows you to fix the situation.


But if EVERYONE does the same then nothing would happen, they would just look at the first boss and pretty damn soon the problem would sort itself out because they’d be wasting their time.

The “fix” if I understand your logic is to hand-pick invites based upon the best possible chance of completing the RF and to do that one would have to be over all rf leader. Now why on earth would the rf leader pick any others but those who are vets and pros… and friends of course who would guarantee victory in the shortest time? Excluding all others who genuinely want to learn strategies but don’t have the experience. Do you not think perhaps that some of those who are remaining still are seeing how the instance unfolds lest they blunder into a boss and wipe it for all

Oh I believe I understand- you would like to be one of those who picks and chooses rf participants and not those who gets picked. It’s like those renfests, nobody ever wants to be the Maid of the spit or the peasant, they always want to be the knight or the lord or the king. Like I said… power and control.

As I said, the best way of saving your time and preserving enjoyment of the game is just pull out of an rf if it is peopled with afkers and try again, you are almost always guaranteed 50% new cast of toons.


Why do you read only what you want to read? You seem scared of any discussion of RF change, what’s scary to you? Are you one of the afk leacher?
I do not want to select anything or anyone, there is already a place where you invite and select, it’s called RAID, the real and authentic one.
If the abortion that is called RF must continue to exist, you need a method that allows, by majority vote, to kick a person who stays at the resspad to do nothing and if possible, decrease the number of relic that it gives, so as to revitalize even the other content.
To remain watching a boss for half an hour is not a solution, because who wants to make the content must be punished to stare the screen for half an hour while a leacher is there afk to watching Netflix?
You can play AoC and its fine, you can NOT play AoC and its fine, what you should not do is play AoC AFK in coop content, HM, Raid, RF or PvP (ruining experience to everyone), it is not hard to understand if you want look other play aoc without play it, there is youtube!


If anything you are the one trying to kill discussion with the Stalinist ultimatum- you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. No, I don’t remember going afk in an rf, got bumped once or twice because of a dc but that’s about it. I am not against rf change I am for it but not rf change that gives power of the few over the rest… even to participate and the opinion of even 75% to deny another player the chance to play seems to me a move in the wrong direction. As it stands no one person is in charge of an rf and that is the way it should remain. The retreat vote is abused as it is no need to add another tool to ruin an rf.

The crazy solution I suggested… leave, take the deserter buff and reapply in 30 mins, if the afkers are as bad as you say then they are still looking at netflix and that rf continues meanwhile you get another shot. What is so bad about that?