Seeking solutions for PvP issues

So, i can finally stop my QQing once and for all (I admit i am QQing) since i found a perfect example of my issue. An issue from which most QQ comes from for many of us.

Found an old video.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u15FU-m4w4w&list=UUsPBiIcpMF8J4dyvln7rN9w&index=10)

This shows two things:

  1. That most cheat accusations make no sense so nobody should be quick to accuse others for that.
  2. The problem i have most of the time and many other players is at the video at 2:20. Which gets worse with fps drops etc.

If that problem would be eliminated i guess more players wouldn’t complain about PvP imbalances. That problem causes most of the issues because if it was non existant, there would be more room for skill chance to overcome the odds even if you are outmatched. That problem, sometimes is non existant but it’s always a bet. As you can see at 2:20 that’s the target nobody of us can hit. There is absolutely no way!

Solutions/ suggestions/ tips/ tricks are welcome and i can guarantee there is a huge population who wants to fix this or minimize it’s effect as much as possible.

How do you guys deal with it? How do you counter that problem? We would really appreciate the help.

You or a ranged player cc the target. Most classes have at least one reliable CC that is easy to land.

Barbs with haste generally have two breaks. Most players will blow their breaks when they get CC’d regardless of how powerful the CC is. Blow weaker CCs to see if they’ll use their breaks on those, then after both are consumed, use a stronger CC.

the melee combat in this game on LAN would be soooo nice. no more teleporting around.

That’s exactly how it looks on my screen. Yesterday i saw a Bear Shaman in a minigame going like that and i though he speedhacks but then i saw that he doesn’t and only happens rarely like teleporting.

So if someone is skilled enough to do some proffesional ‘‘steering’’ with his mouse and staying on target as well, that ‘‘teleport effect’’ on your screen becomes worse. Latency can make it even harder.

And i know many of us will never be able to do that kind of steering because we will never have that flawless performance so i feel kinda punished forever.

  • That results in many good players to be accused very quickly for using a speedhack or even comber while they don’t. So this only adds to the ‘‘difficulty’’ you have to surpass and seems you spend more time trying to slow your target and CC, which is already very hard while you are getting spanked really hard as well at the same time.

So beyond tactical and cooperating group play, i don’t see any other way to overcome this with Short Weapon Melee classes and manage to build ‘‘Some decent DPS procs’’ especially as DT since no hit = No VoM = No dmg. Still haven’t seen Shield Guard/ Carnage Conqueror maybe once/ Zerker Barb a bit more common.

I suppose Stygga’s solutions is the only way around it.

  • I wanna mention also, that we get that problem mostly in Open World PvP. Which is the best part of this game. In minigames it’s much better and manageable. I know many new players who wont even try PvP because of it. It’s sad.

Sorry Stygga and thank you for the advice but i guess i found my answers. From the event fight. Whole night minigames everything was normal.

Either the guys that came there during that hour at the event, live right above the Servers and play with 10 latency or are obviously trolling us.

Do you guys play with 10 latency? That’s unplayable for most of us. Impossible trying to compete when you can’t even see the target.

I am closing this thread! Good thing is i found out at which timezones PvP is possible for me.

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I would be interested to see your pov to see the warping. You should live stream it next time.

You are the only one that looks normal.

The others just ported before my screen. Couldn’t even predict where to land a stun. I guess that is unfixable.

Anyway i appreciate all the advice.

I was the ranger btw my ping is usually 80-100ms

10 ms btw :frowning: Try lowering your framerate, it helps me to land combos

The video i first posted at 2:13-2:15 that ‘‘Warp’’ effect plus i see you being in X spot Then 10-20 yards + or so somewhere else.

Latency i get from 130 to 180, fps around 20-30 at PvP zones. Highest fps in game i can get in solo instances is 90-98 although i got around 120+ in some rarely. FotD Arena is also bad for some reason while Khemi sparring Arena alot better.
Nametags disabled, particles to myself etc. But i am not getting that performance issue with many.

So, i wish it was manageable but, unfortunately it doesn’t work for me. I will have to live with that.
It’s more of a client response issue then anything else. Eastern Europe is not the best place.

Everybody sees that warp effect. The higher your latency, the easier it is to induce the ‘warp’ effect for other players viewing your character. Doing sharp turns while sprinting is a surefire way to make yourself warp across your opponents’ camera.

Lower ping probably helps land combos, but not by much. In all honesty, the net code for AOC is so unreliable for everyone, that comparing ping really doesn’t mean much unless you’re 300+.

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Usually the warping isnt such a big issue when fighting against normal players. Just catch them when they are trying to perform a combo or use the aoe cc as stygga said. They have to stand still when doing a combo. This time may be shorter when they combo jump, but most players miss 50% or more of their combo’s too if they try to combo jump (at least if you move as well).

Sometimes players are trying to escape and use this trick on purpose to port around on your screen just to prevent getting damage when they almost die. I think it’s an exploit (taking advantage of a known flaw in the game) and “good” players (as they consider themselves) should not resort to this. It’s a little sad. Just play normal and do some circle straving or so.

Well it doesn’t happen with all really. Sometimes i even see DT Characters moving faster then Rogues.
I know speedbuffs from game mechanics in this game, it’s normal and manageable. Although i would like my snare ‘‘Dark Burden’’ to actually work all time but i learned it’s ‘‘buggy’’ for years.

It just seems that some characters look like they run/ move with double speed and this is why many confuse it with hacks. Many times i am confused as well but as long as you see that effect, you recognize it’s all fine.

In truth the client just translates their location different, they may look like they were right before the X tree, for you at least but thing is they were there, a few seconds before you saw them at that tree.
So what you see then is a short teleport i suppose to their real location.

As a result, your target dissapeared as it moved from point X to point Y. This can sometimes be troublesome in either seing CCs KBs during their cast (you see them but later then they actually started) Cloth classes might have an even harder time with that, predicting when to Silence and Interrupt since DT has a chance as a lifeleeching monster to stay alive at least.

Ping Ping Ping… Thrice said, thrice cursed :stuck_out_tongue:
Thank you for your responses everyone.

You say this, but how do you know there isnt a speedhack on top of it in some of those cases?
The fact that there are some effects causing the warping in some cases, doesnt mean that all those cases are because of that effect.

Actually this isnt about ping but how they coded the server and client’s interpolation.
We all used to play this game in 10ms or lower latency but still had those warping issues.
The sin in the video wasnt using any cheat. But he seemed landing combos while moving and teleporting.

Im not a game developer so i can’t say how it exactly works, but afaik i think this game’s tickrate is very low. So if you move very flashy(with fast mouse turning) other player’s client will interpolate your moves by prediction, but that is very incorrect.
For example, assume that you filmed someone running with 5fps camera, but you wanna make it as 60fps. Then what do you gonna do? You gonna interpolate frames of his movements to look flawless, but it would be very incorrect from what he really moved especially if he moved so fast and randomly.

Thsts why some shooter games like csgo, valorant uses 128 tickrate to synchronize server and client as possible as they can.

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Ping certainly plays a role. You will notice laggy ranged players warp a lot more than those with good ping. The game is forced to interpolate for longer, and when the next update comes in, a longer period has elapsed due to the higher ping, giving the laggy players a larger ‘teleport’. For this reason, playing a ranger, necro, demo, pom, with high ping is actually an advantage.

This is why people that say ‘NA players with good ping are at an advantage’ just look like uninformed idiots :man_shrugging:

Lower ping is still better. Maybe it makes you slightly harder to hit for a melee but your abilities and movement are still delayed and your opponent can literally play faster than you (not to mention how much harder it is to land combos or double tap kbs with a high ping).

Of course the game has some buffering (which notably makes it possible for people with a high ping to still do top dps in pve) but in pvp vs good players your high ping will do more harm than good generally speaking.

But yeah this happened when we had EU servers and most people had between 0 and 50ms too, the game never had a great netcode to begin with. Probably because it’s a mmo, mmos always have to compromise heavily on netcode because of the number of players and interactions involved. That means a very low tickrate among other things, just like Sheeet said. Even today a lot of mmos still have a very simple netcode because that’s all they need (or think they need :stuck_out_tongue: ).

Oh and the in game latency is a very strange meter, you can make it higher or lower depending on your framerate so I wouldn’t put too much weight into it, maybe it’s meant to represent total network + server processing latency or something like that (why is it affected by your client’s framerate though, that I don’t know). But it’s always quite a bit higher than your ping to the servers. My ping to the servers is a rock solid 85ms with 0 drops or fluctuations but in game it usually says 90-120ms (when staying around 100fps) depending on what’s happening on my screen. Meanwhile on my laptop the in game latency is a good 50-70ms higher than my actual ping.

And regardless things warp and it feels generally laggy and inconsistent compared to properly coded games.

I remember when eu servers where located in stockholm, I had 3-5 ping constantly on the ingame meter, not sure what this says about that theory.

I mean use a frame limiter (like Rivatuner RTSS) and see for yourself (cap it at 15, 30, 100 etc.). But if you have a reasonably high fps you usually get an in game latency not much higher than your ping at least. I often see 85ms in game actually, especially if I’m alone in an instance or something like that. But let’s say I join a mini or do a dungeon then it will go up. Also the latency meter sometimes goes crazy and displays a physically impossible number (I’ve seen numbers as low as 0-20ms even with the US servers).

Either way it’s not an actual “ping” command to the servers which is what most games usually show you.

I also noticed strange UI shows “server framerate” which never goes above 100fps but can go drop quite a bit lower depending on circumstances. I am not sure what this is measuring either, usually server framerate would mean tick rate but AoC is 100% NOT running at a 100hz tick rate. Literally too old for that plus the game would use waaaaaay more bandwidth if it were true (it uses almost nothing).