Signet of Cruel Delight needs re-balancing


#61

ETA: Thinking better of talking about Ye Olde Aggro Rant. scribblescribble

I have very little hope at this point Funcom will get any kind of proper balancing done, for the reasons Aliera states, no matter how badly they need doing.


#62

I didn’t ever state that game’s balance was perfect, although I don’t feel like Stoicism was mandatory at all in any content besides NM raids (even there, i bet some people found out some other ways to DPS-tank).

In any other content, you could leechtank, healtank or dpstank at will, pretty much. If i had to argue, i’d say that the aggro in SWL is in a much worse state that it has ever been in TSW.


#63

I decided it wasn’t worth bringing up, but the fact that you added heal- leech- and dps- to “tank” is kind of my point :slight_smile:


#64

Well you edited your post after mine was done dude. T_T


#65

They do, last time I tried. None of them are more than like, 7% of damage done but still if you get a double crit it’s a solid 2*wp heal (iirc tested with Vital Shot’s passive and Smash, I may misremember)

CD double dipping on crit chance mostly means it sucks ■■■ for a lot longer than it should though. Like, I’m 2/3 of the way to maxed crit chance but get <half as much healing from CD as someone in full red.


#66

(For the sake of clarity, I’m going to avoid using terms like “double-dipping”, as it’s a frequently misunderstood/misused term, much like “exponential” scaling.)

What I meant by crit chance scaling Signet of Cruel Delight twice is, crit chance scales both the frequency of healing, as well as the magnitude of healing. This is an important point to take into account, because the balancing problem created by Cruel Delight is the large amount of healing per second it’s able to provide.

In comparison, Signet of Thirst doesn’t have this problem, because it has a recharge/cooldown, which limits its frequency of healing, and it also specifies a maximum amount of healing, which limits its magnitude of healing (i.e.: crits only cause you to reach the maximum faster). If Thirst didn’t specify a maximum amount of healing, then crit chance would also scale its healing-per-second twice.

Curiously, all luck signets—except Signet of Cruel Delight—follow the pattern of applying a 5-second buff effect with a 15-second recharge/cooldown, as if they were designed intentionally with this scaling problem in mind.


#67

The issue remains, if you nerf cruel delight, you do not make the game better. You have to do a full rebalance of signets, passive/active self healing, and truthfully, damage output at well, at the very least.

Thirst sucks, lets be honest. Its really, really bad because 5/15s is probably not even during the 5s you really want/need it, to say nothing of the cap and healing itself. That alone makes CD superior, because CD can happen any time, regardless of its strength.

The other luck signets are largely garbage as well, in contrast to the value of signets in most other slots, but if CD were overnerfed, and I felt like leveling a new luck, I’d probably not bother with thirst.

So without a multifaceted approach to balancing, you only make people mad and do not actually improve the game, because nerfing CD on its own does not make anything better. It must be a serious overhaul or it shouldn’t happen at all.


#68

it would help to reduce the internal CD (cool down) of the Signets, from 15 dec to 5


#69

Even if you’re right (which is a massive if) and they did intentionally design missile crisis to be an awful slog to most players but really easy for the few who know how to exploit mob ai and pathing, that is bad design - especially in a game that was relaunched to be less obtuse and unwelcoming to casual players. :v:


#70

Nono it’s not a “massife” if at all. I speedran this mission yesterday without killing any single mob from boss 1 to boss 2. Still have to figure out a way to make it consistent, but there are tricks to think about.

No that’s not a bad design, it’s a design where the mission rewards more players who think and are more skilled in terms of gameplay. You want an example of bad design? Scenarios. They take you 10 min with bad gear, and they take you the same 10 min if you overgear. And come on, it’s not “that” unwelcoming to other players, at worst those will have to spend more time on the mission and fight more mobs, big deal.


#71

cool, you managed to stay in sprint 6 the complete time?
They pulled me out once and I needed to scam nurture and take cover to get to next warehouse, but I lost the mobs on the way their.


#72

Yes i did. Did this again this morning and lost my sprint at some point because i missed a jump, but i have Alacrity and Quickness so still managed to outrun.


#73

woot, it works confirmed by second Player \o/


#74

I’m not saying it can’t be done (depending on what yesterday’s patchnotes meant by “Mission can no longer get stuck by killing the Hi-Tech Rocket Specialist too early” it might be even easier now), I’m just saying it’s probably not the intended way of finishing the mission, given that it’s an action mission and not a sabotage mission.


#75

I’ve only started this game a few weeks ago, and this stupid signet is already making me want to quit again, because I love playing healers and I’m sick to death of hearing “No healers!” in every party I join because people just have a signet that does all the healing.

So, anyone claiming “You can’t nerf this because you’ll lose players”, well, you’ll also lose players if you don’t nerf it. There is no fun in playing an MMORPG that lets you be a healer and then lets people slot an item that makes you useless. I don’t get to just slot a signet that kills my enemies when I heal either.

Every other Luck signet also has a 15 second cooldown, so why doesn’t this one?


#76

see the lair mission lights out is a side quest for 5 ppl
I run it alone cus sprint 6 make it happen

if a quest is made and some ppl using the grey mass behind their forehead not for the reason alone to burn calories, and find a way how it can be made more quick and fast

ppl tend to complain it was not intended that way, ist wierd cus it is a action mission…
who is telling u to actually fight in here? cus it is a action mission u Need to fight your way trough
no sir I dont.

if it is not a bug or exploit it is only a different way of approaching a quest.

I mean I let myself get killed in CF in lair to finish the Sabotage quest, I am not actually sneak around.
I am a bee, if my powers like respawn and/or sprint 6 make me finish a quest in a quarter of the time,
hell I will do it.

but ok
you say its not intended that way, keep grinding your way through the poor mobs and entertain them, I am sure they are bored to death ^^


#77

Hy, I am happy you see it like this.
But I burned my mouth on this alot and I encourage you to do the same.
Till you get asked to be silent…

to make it short, funcom knows healing is off in SWL and healers are not so much needed, cus ist is more effective to sustain tank. I dont say ist bad to sustain tank.
It can be tanked normal and then ppl will love to have you with them, but if you meet a seasoned SWL tank that is not refusing to sustain cus he likes to give a heal a purpose, you are needed in raid maybe as heal…

most can tank lairs without heal, 2 lairs are confirmed, dps deals so much dmg the tank has no time to die
no heal needed. But please Keep playing a heal, at some Point you will be a valid memebr of a party.

DPS take 2 hit glyph and rest crit, 2 crit pow in weapons not more.
You can easy Switch from dps to heal if needed but dont Play heal as main.
In pve on normal maps, so solo content, I dont know why heal is implemented at all, ist a complete waste of time to Play the pve map as heal.

And belive me when I say I was very loud about this Topic

good luck


#78

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#79

I do belive he is refereing to the dps that do not need heal cus of the signet.
And plz let him speak and dont try to make him mad so he will use bad language and the post will be closed cus of that.plz Let him speak.

He is not blaming your solution for some known issues
he is blaming the game mechanic that makes it valid to use your way

And @Aetrion do yourself a favour do not generalize in here.
ppl are waiting for you to do that so they can tore your post to pieces and focus on the wrong wording ignoring the topic to slient you, they will try to make you mad so you will be violating the forum rules so they can Infom a moderator to delete your post or force them to close the topic cus it is not constructive anymore.


#80

I didn’t forbid him to speak dude, but you’re trying to forbid me though. I’m pointing out the parts that are BS in his post (because he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about, he just wants to rant about something), that’s it. If he chooses to get pissed of and starts posting rude stuff, then he’ll pay the consequences of it. If the thread gets closed, not a big deal either, the discussion about sustain tanking is offtopic here and the thread isn’t going anywhere anyway.