Soldier/Guard Question - Understanding Defense & Frenzy

Hey Everyone,
I understand the clear explanations given by the in game descriptions of each stance, but I’m curious how to effectively use each in PVP, or PVE. Any feed back would be a big help.
Using a Guardian for example, I just knocked back my opponent and want to hit with Counterweight (I’ll use this cause its a long animation.
Do I hit frenzy before the finisher to get the damage in?
Or do I hit frenzy after the finisher. I worry that if I pop Frenzy after that the damage increase will only be on the next white hits/combo, or does the damage increase immediately when I frenzy?

This question came about from an old forum post. The person was giving tips and suggested to use counterweight and go back into defensive stance right after the animation starts. This suggested to me that because of the short cool down between stances that they were in frenzy before the finisher was hit. So I’m questioning the mechanic that if you start the finisher in frenzy already but hit defensive during the animation, does the remainder of that combos damage represent in Frenzy, or does the defensive stance and the lower damage start as soon as its pressed?

I hope my questions make sense, I just feel like I may have gone about the order if my stances in the wrong order in many occasions. It may be why I feel like my Guard tickles people in duels sometimes, and yes Guardians are not considered much of a dueling class to begin with but I can still win more if I knew about my stances a bit better. I’m not terrible, but I have plenty to improve on.

As a side note, if anyone has a decent Tempest build for pvp Id like to give it a go.
When PVE gets heavy its always Juggernaut ! A Tempest Tank build would be great too, as I enjoy using the Polearm in most content.

Thanks in advance for the clarification and builds.

DanVanCool <-- Google the name to see some Artwork, even some Old AOC drawings.

frenzy before the finisher, so the damages buff is used.

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If you are fighting only one enemy and you knock them back, immediately switch to frenzy, so you can swap back to defensive as they get up, and you can’t be hit in frenzy since they are cc’d. About switching to defensive during a finisher, I’ve heard the damage from frenzy remains, but I’m not sure.

Yes you can switch to def stance after landing the finisher and your combo will still do full damage.

But on guard you’ll be losing a ton of damage on reckoning if you do that. Not always worth it, especially when you spec general with guarded frenzy.


Good to know for switching to Defensive during the combo, plus the added point to loosing a damage on reckoning which would be a shame to loose that DPS on on a guard.
I guess you’d pop land a frenzy induced Storm Strike + reckoning, load and land your counterweight and hit defensive once the finishers done to get the most from both while reckoning is on cool down.

Thanks for the feed back.

It doesn’t always work out this way, you will rarely be able to do that without being interrupted. Focus on being aware what is around you instead to switch to defensive.

Few statement are this true!
I had duels in mind when laying out that scenario, as almost all mini games pop in midday while I’m at work. Im have to duel more often to have any PVP experiences.
Definitely beyond 1 v 1 duels you definitely have to be aware of whats happening around you is key.
Defensive stance wont save you if you have a flag on your back and you’ve suddenly found your team wiped out around you while trying to land that last combo on a sin and his entire team. lol