Stealth update with no devkit to modders is poor form

cheers, i have enjoyed it as well.
i have been a passionate advocate for the public domain and the free culture movement for some time, and i am certainly capable of letting that passion get the better of me. i truly do believe that the current state of the Howard IP is an affront, and it’s one in a long line of affronts to the man’s legacy. we already let disney and sonny bono rewrite copyright law once, and the corporate ‘rights-holders’ continue to push the line (and blatantly step over it when they can get away with it) in so many ways it disgusts me.
i do eagerly await the time when REH’s works are unequivocally public domain and the rights revert to public ownership. his work and legacy has been abused and commodified for so long, it will be wonderful when it finally belongs to all of us.

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:innocent: I am glad to hear this!

Heehee there is nothing wrong with letting something you are passionate about getting the better of you.

I do not disagree.

Where it will sadly be abused even more most likely by every crackpot who saw a movie in the 80’s and think they know everything there is to know (btw, the rights to the 80’s movie version of Conan will not become PD :wink:) Or even worse, those who just think they know BETTER than Robert E. Howard did. Hmm… I wonder where we heard that one before cough L. Sprague de Camp cough But at least being in the PD no one will own the rights and be able to have a stranglehold on the material and “claim” that these are actually the original writings / works, and hopefully enough people are educated by this point in time to brush this sort of nonsense off.

As for the topic of the copyright law, if the copyright is in the hands of the person(s) who are directly responsible for creating the work (the author of the book, the writer / performer of the song) then I have no issue with them holding copyright protection to their created property while they are alive. Anyone else though? Nope. You should not be able to “purchase” the rights to something you did not create yourself. But that is just my opinion.

In my case, Dune brings me nostalgia while Conan Exiles does not.
I only took interest in its lore thanks to the Conan Exiles’ members who were fans of Conan the Barbarian and shared with me their passion at some point. But it is pure chance if I bought Conan Exiles in the first place (I just wanted to play with my partner, who happened to be playing Conan Exiles at that moment).
So had the two games been launched at the same time, I would have gone for Dune 100% rather than Conan Exiles. But I believe it is the same for the people who grew up with Conan the Barbarian rather than with Dune as a bedside book.

Concerning the attractivity of Dune, the majority of players drawn to it will be people who have already been introduced to its story, rather than for the appeal the game offers itself.
I actually had that conversation with friends who do not relate to neither Dune or Conan, but who bought Soulmask. They told me that playing in a big desert felt less appealing than playing games with more diversified environments, reason for which they also would be more inclined to buy Conan Exiles than Dune if they had to choose their next game.

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So, in short, because you are a Dune fan and not a Conan fan, but sorta stumbled into this game as something of a space filler/at random?

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There was quote by Gerge RR Martin that I remembered,

Although, when someone changes a work to adapt it to TV, writers may always be annoyed at aspects they found important or were proud of, to be altered. Sometimes its just necessary to change things(GRRM writes to many ‘small’ characters for TV for example).

I never saw the Dune movies or read any any Dune book. I’m not sure that would be the game for me, I have nothing with Dune.
I paid attention to Conan Exiles because of the movies. The games mechanics, open world, the atmosphere(the music while travelling the south) is what made me continue to play it.

Joel always wanted to make PvP game(and completely ignored the PvE side early on) and he saw no problem in changing the lore to fit his view. I dont dislike him, he did eventually see that there was a large number of PvE players who were sticking around and started making more content for them aswell. Joel has his own view of how things should be done, but I found him willing to listen aswell.
That you can make silk in a tanners bench, is something I requested years ago(originally in the armourers bench though) during a livestream and Joel said “sure, we can do that.” and they added it next update.
He gets a lot of hate for his style of doing things, but he’s not that bad. We’ll, you can always go to the Sepermeru tavern and yell at him I suppose.

I cannot be called a fan at all.
But Dune holds memories of my childhood while Conan does not, indeed.
I stumbled into this game at random as you said, just because my boyfriend was on it at that moment (the same could be told of other games). However, I wanted to keep playing Conan Exiles after our server was closed and he had uninstalled it.
I tried a few private servers, discovered for the first time the vanilla servers, and met with Conan fans. The way they were speaking of it was what made me interested in its lore. I bought the books, and I do not regret it.
Now, Conan Exiles is the game I have played the most. I still want to try Dune because of my feelings of nostalgia, but I know Conan Exiles is a game I genuinely like (minus the current inventory lol) and want to play in the future.

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when it belongs to all of us, no doubt there will be an avalanche of awful pastiches. but it will belong to all of us, and that is what is important imo.

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Yeah. Art benefits from artists being able to make an income from their work, which copyright helps with.
But… why would it extend beyond their death? Their family would inherit the money they made in their liftetime, just as with most other jobs.

I can see little if any good come from the ever-expanding protection of “intellectual property”, but certainly a lot of damage:

  • The existence of the Buck Rogers IP was a factor in killing TSR and practiacally driving Gary Gygax, inventor of Dungeons and Dragons, out of the creative industry. Disclaimers: The guy and the company had many other problems, too, but that certainly was a nail in the coffin.
  • Much of the fan culture and crowd creativity is more or less illegal, as it often uses copyrighted, trademarked or otherwise protected material. As soon as anything looks too good, or some doofus in an office has a “bright” idea, or something seems to offer an opportunity for the IP holder to make even a tiny teeny bit of profit, it gets stomped.
  • Look at how the Mythos established by Lovecraft and others served to inspire countless other media, all thanks to it being more or less public domain. Frankenstein, Dracula and many other stories in the public domain have served as basis to create many great (yes, and many ■■■■■■) movies, games and other media over the past decades. Imagine what great stuff we’d have if more of the "IP"s of the 20th century were in the public domain.
    Yes, Disney and George Lucas, I’m looking at you. If copyright ended with the creator, I might live long enough to see somebody make a decent Star Wars movie again (excluding Rogue One, that was good, but by going against the corporate main stream). Curse you, Jar Jar Bings. And Boba Fett isn’t some folk hero, but a ruthless bounty hunter, Crom dammit. Instead, we get Rebel Moon. And cars that all look like electric shavers, cost a gazillon dollars and are near impossible to repair yourself. Rents are too high, too. F. you, reality.

Anyhow, I want my Danny deVito Conan movie.

I’ll be in my room. Don’t talk to me.

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Let’s not forget the fact that the family of J.R.R.Tolkien suing them over the use of the term “Hobbit” in 1st edition. Oh they still exist in game today, they are just called “Halflings” now, which the Tolkien estate could not sue over. The fact of the matter is, D&D was based on several sources, one of which was Middle Earth and to a lesser degree (and in later iterations I believe) Hyboria.

Even better, in 2027 the Universal versions of Frankenstein and Dracula become public domain as well. :wink:

In 2034 Superman does! Batman one year later. :open_mouth: Then in 2037 Wonder Woman. That will be an…interesting year. :unamused:

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People have mentioned “new devs” around the forum, and I think NeedAdvise is right - there are new devs.

I am on Conan modding Discord as well as on 20-30 other mod-related servers and I have seen modders mentioning here and there that devs are touching things they did not touch before, that things were changed in an awkward way, or even that some recent changes are hard-coded into the game and possibility of modding these sections of the game is no longer possible.

For me this is a strong indication that there is someone new messing with the game.

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the rumor is that alot of conan devs have been moved to dune for crunchtime development in prep of a possible august release, leaving others to maintain the game and the devkit.
if true, then we can hope that after dune releases, some will be put back on conan and some development will continue.
crunchtime is a common (and evil) practice in software dev companies, all hands on deck for 18 hour days in prep of major release of software.

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Kinda rich, coming from the guy who was so paralyzed by his own inability to write his story to a proper ending that he let the TV series scriptwriters do it for him.

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Yeah, I’m interested in seeing how Funcom can make the playable Arrakis not-boring.

Interestingly, I’m kinda the exact opposite to your friends. I’m a long-time fan of both Conan and Dune, and as such interested in games made for those IPs. But I’m not a great fan of the survival game genre in general, so Soulmask, from what I’ve seen, gives me no real reason to play it.

I think the reaction of the audience to the ending of the TV series is what made him abandon it. Which makes one wonder what he had in mind for an ending.

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Nah. The latest book in the series, A Dance with Dragons, was published in 2011, way before the TV series concluded. Martin has been writing spin-offs and doing editorial stuff and in general spending his time doing everything in his power to delay writing his flagship series.

Then again, this isn’t the first time Martin has given solid writing advice he himself doesn’t follow. “Do as I say, not as I do.”

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Also at least two scoops of Moorcocks’ Eternal Champion cycle, read: Eric of Melnibone. Perhaps a dash of Lankhmar for good measure.

Arneson had something of an affection for some sci fi elements as well, but then again, pulp “fantasy” often had a few aliens and lasers, with Conan being no exception.

D&D was, strictly, bass in the Chainmail wargame. When they started adding more character and role play aspects, that’s when we started to see the import of more literary material, and from wider sources.

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Over the decades, all of those and many more have been listed as sources of inspiration in the various D&D books themselves. Gary Gygax has mentioned Howard’s works as one of his inspirations. (And of course, they served as inspiration to Michael Moorcock, as well.) Fritz Leiber’s (again inspired by Howard) Lankhmar was even turned into a D&D campaign setting.

(Although Leiber can be considered a contemporary of Howard’s rather than follower, he stated in his foreword to “Ill-Met in Lankhmar” that he wanted to create characters who were “closer to human nature” than Conan or Tarzan.)

If I’m not mistaken, if it wasn’t for Gary Gygax’s friend really pushing for something more based on elves and orcs and dwarves, D&D would have been more based in the Hyborian Age.

Its pretty much why early D&D editions pushed for the DM vs Player style with adventurers being a grim lot focused more on killing monsters and looting dungeons than altruistic goals. With a more focus on action than speech (also a result of the Chainmail roots).

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That is a bit of a stretch.
There seems to be significantly more Anthony Skene, William Burroughs, and Edgar Rice Burroughs DNA in his works. While Burroughs (Ed Rice version) was part of the Howard Circle, he is no more Howard than Howard is Lovecraft. We are getting into cousins and uncles rather than parents.

The oblique tie would be thru his coordination with Lin Carter. But many REH purists have noted how little of an influence Howard seemed to have on Carter and DeSprague for that matter.
Altho, as a death cultist, the concept of posthumous collaborations is fascinating.

But Moorcock gave us the stamp of that contentious little bag of debate called alignment. Specifically the Law v Chaos which was the original formula, with Good v Evil being a later addition. Mind you, Poul Anderson’s works may also have had some gravity, but at that point should we not just package all of Moorcock and Anderson under Lin Carter as it was his magic media circus?

Well this wandered off in a lot of ultimately cool directions. As to copyright, I really don’t want to see more Conan stories. I want to see new characters in the world Conan inhabited. Hyboria is such a rich backdrop and its races and cultures, given so little depth by Howard himself but enough for good writers to really latch on to and, potentially, do something fantastic with.

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