Suspensions, Bans, Terms of conduct, Moderator actions. Especially in relation to broken game performance

Xevyr · 2023-04-28T12:32:46.585Z

Sadly that’s not stopping people from trying, which is why the ticket system is so slow

There’s also been some fairly reasonable assumptions made that part of the reason they insist on this temporary suspension is so that the decay system takes care of any other buildings the player might have had

Also, I don’t think it’s a good idea to allow people to appeal that without any conditions… Why?.. Because literally every single person who ever gets banned will proceed to appeal away… wasting the admins time even more than they already are.

If this would be ever up for an appeal, it needs to come from the other side… providing the admins with some tool where they can pre-flag certain accounts that the evidence was more than clear so there is no room for appeal and only allowing it for those where this isn’t the case (though one would then question why would those people get a ban… so we’re back where we started)…

At the end of the day the part that you seem to be missing is that they can ban you even if they don’t like your username it is their servers and just like the owner of any private server can ban you from their server… so can Funcom…
This actually might be one of the reasons why they don’t choose to make premium servers as that would mitigate this right they have to revoke your server access privileges at any point for any reason they feel like.

The bottom line is this though regarding this thread… you can’t seriously expect us to believe that you just randomly woke up this morning and you felt like having a nice chat on the forums about suspensions and bans for no particular reason That’s why people are not buying what you’re trying to sell… that this post isn’t personal and it’s not about you getting banned… literally before you started making these posts as you’re waiting for a Zendesk reply…

So consider how would someone else doing the same thing would come across to you if the roles were reversed… I don’t think you’d buy it either, not even with the best of intentions…

In any case, good luck with your thread… I pretty much said all I can on this topic, so I’ll leave you to it! let’s see who else is up for discussing this

DeaconElie · 2023-04-28T12:44:44.592Z

Xevyr:

Generally people agree that it would be nice to get a heads-up and a chance to correct the mistake before getting instantly wiped / banned

Xevyr:

And like I tried pointing out in your other thread these servers are provided for free, there is already quite a lot of effort put in considering there are thousands of them and all of them are administered by a tiny handful of people… hence why the ticket system is overwhelmed even as it is…

I think that is a very optimistic assumption. There are not thousands of public servers. And I’m pessimistic Funcom has more then 1 person per 100 servers as admin. Funcoms public servers are the best example of a Public facility. Think bus station mens room.

The ticket system is a joke at best. Seems to me the majority of the time the only tickets that admins actually responds to is mass clan spam tickets on PVP.

Ok, lets get started.

Should the Terms of conduct be Amended? YES!
“Suspensions are not open to appeal”. Leaving no room for genuine mistakes that a moderator may make.
• Should Moderators give message warnings of 48hours? YES!
Allowing players, a chance to take corrective action regarding “Official Building restrictions”, at least as a temporary policy until the game is fixed.
• Are account suspensions of 14days for a first-time building offence fair? That is dependent on the offense.
Considering hours some players take creating bases and the current state of the game, maybe deleting a base is enough at present.
• Should players seek help elsewhere in finding a solution? Going out side the established procedure will get you now where. No matter how poorly it works.

But yes, these are issues we as players have been over quite a few times and it always falls on deaf ears.

Xevyr:

Could’ve used the search function to look up the 20+ other threads trying to discuss the exact same things

Can be said about a lot of topics.

Xevyr:

What they could do though and people also generally agree on this… is try to supply the actual ban reasons in the messages themselves in a short and accurate way so the player knows exactly what they did… This might actually help them as well, since they might get a reduced number of tickets if everybody doesn’t always have to ask the reason:

Xevyr:

oh yes one more thing, probably the most important of them all. It would be nice if official servers finally got some upgraded hardware from… this century… so they don’t stall at half the player numbers than they’re supposed to handle

Xevyr:

But again… free servers… so it’s one of those “take it or leave it” situations. Nobody is forcing you to play on those…

That in and of it’s self is a thread. You know my opinion, Funcom’s OFFICIAL servers need to be an example of what a Conan server should be, not an example of how bad they can get.

I know this is a bad idea, but free servers and battle pass servers.

Kikigirl:

There are members that will report or derail topics if they believe it goes against the rules

Or just because.

Xevyr:

Yes, very few of them… maybe? most of them are suspended for a good reason and usually they start out claiming they did nothing wrong…

Just pointing to the agreement that Zendesk needs to give a reason for their action. It does no one any good to leave people guessing. You can’t learn a lesson if you don’t know what you did wrong.

Xevyr I think you are putting too much faith in appealing to Zendesk. Being quite familiar with bans, I’ve never had much success with appeals.

A time out is a time out. I think there should be at least one warning before one is handed out. An over whelming majority of the player base would agree. love to have some one from Funcom pop in and explain why they don’t, It’s the right thing to do. But I think I’d stand a better chance of laying a golden egg.

Xevyr:

Sadly that’s not stopping people from trying, which is why the ticket system is so slow

Or it could be lacking personal. There is just so much Bob and Tracy can do in 10 hours.

Xevyr:

If this would be ever up for an appeal, it needs to come from the other side… providing the admins with some tool where they can pre-flag certain accounts that the evidence was more than clear so there is no room for appeal and only allowing it for those where this isn’t the case (though one would then question why would those people get a ban… so we’re back where we started)…

Man when we agree it bears repeating.

Xevyr:

you can’t seriously expect us to believe that you just randomly woke up this morning and you felt like having a nice chat on the forums about suspensions and bans for no particular reason

I would. But then

For some reason I feel like some one just passed me a snot covered basketball

FYI bears repeating

Zeatros · 2023-04-28T12:51:56.816Z

I love suspension/ban talk , everyone always thinks there right personally i gave up , if it happens it happens , already on my 3rd account XD

CrispyCrackling · 2023-04-28T12:53:05.736Z

DeaconElie:

For some reason I feel like some one just passed me a snot covered basketball

That made me laugh .
Hopefully the mod will leave the thread open long enough to give regular players, other than the few extremely passionate a chance to contribute to the debate.

CrispyCrackling · 2023-04-28T12:56:55.856Z

Zeatros:

already on my 3rd account XD

Maybe an option is for more players to vote with their wallets.
When this game works it is enjoyable and addicting. I feel you.

Xevyr · 2023-04-28T13:00:15.004Z

DeaconElie:

Xevyr I think you are putting too much faith in appealing to Zendesk. Being quite familiar with bans, I’ve never had much success with appeals.

Not necessarily But it’s the only sanctioned way… like.. people can beat their chests all day long on the forums.. it’s not going to help their ban… it actually might be counterproductive seeing as occasionally zendesk staff also browses them..

These are not the types of situations where you can get a more positive result by breaking even more rules
So when a staff member literally closes your first topic and tells you to go to Zendesk.. starting up a new thread on a similar topic minutes later is just kicking the beehive..

This is how the private sector operates When you’re on private virtual property your freedom of speech only extends as far as the patience of the owner..

DeaconElie:

For some reason I feel like some one just passed me a snot covered basketball

That’s because you weren’t here for the start of the game
First round:

I think I was banned PlayStation Discussion

I think I was banned. How does a player know with zero communication on the situation. I started playing Conan Exiles and purchased the new DLC’s, a lot has changed. I found a clear spot to build with no one else around on a conflict server. I work so the pvp time is generally when I can play. I walled what I thought was a small area for my future buildings to protect me as I build, I am solo. Another clan moved in right next door and built a similar sized base, not long after another did …

Second round:

Bans and suspensions. What have you experienced? Is there a solution? General Discussion

I started playing Conan Exiles again on my PS5. I purchased the new DLC’s, a lot has changed. I found a clear spot to build with no one else around on a conflict server. I work so the pvp time is generally when I can play. I walled what I thought was a small area for my future buildings to protect me as I build, I am solo. Another clan moved in right next door and built a similar sized base, not long after another did the same stupidly right next door making three decent sized bases close t…

And immediately after we’re doing the third one… I honestly think Dana is bored of closing these at this point so she’s just gonna let it run for a while see if anything interesting comes of it..
But when a staff member tells you twice to go to zendesk and closes your thread… Imo the correct action isn’t to just start a third one..

DeaconElie · 2023-04-28T13:03:04.535Z

Xevyr:

Imo the correct action isn’t to just start a third one…

Anything past the first is a time out for me.
I’ve been a forum moderator, I do not have the temperament for it.

That said we really need to have a set down with Funcom to get this stuff sorted. losing 1 player over a misunderstanding or report abuse, is 1 too many.

Now I got a temper. And yes some times you all get me worked up. But I will get considerably more irate for a time out if I am offered no explanation for it.

CrispyCrackling · 2023-04-28T13:08:54.822Z

It must be an offence to flood/spam a legitimate thread with unrelated topics, drawing attention to a separate thread. edit: note:

DeaconElie:

You do get you aren’t helping your argument, right?

Point taken. I am new to contributing to forums. Please have patience i’m still learning.

DeaconElie · 2023-04-28T13:10:03.945Z

You do get you aren’t helping your argument, right?

Xevyr · 2023-04-28T13:12:41.704Z

CrispyCrackling:

unrelated topics

How are these unrelated?
You do realize we can read… right? like… there are these things called words… they have meanings… and half the words in this title coincide with the title of your other thread…

Edit:
In any case, you seem to be focusing on me rather than your thread, so while I understand you might not like the things I tried getting through to you about, sorry if I somehow offended you
As I said earlier before @DeaconElie temporarily dragged me back with some quotes…

Xevyr:

I pretty much said all I can on this topic, so I’ll leave you to it!

Funbags · 2023-04-28T13:55:51.977Z

Embrace the ban. Learn from the ban Read and understand the rules. Become a better exile.

biggcane55 · 2023-04-28T14:07:11.499Z

The 40 player server FC uses is just a marketing tool that they cant/dont care to actually accomplish. Which is why actually adminning them is low priority

Kikigirl · 2023-04-28T14:13:47.011Z

CrispyCrackling:

Obviously there are extremely passionate fans here who like each others posts who collectively move to silence the average/real player voicing and opinion. Is the goal to completely destroy an already small player pool(console experience only)?

I’ll never agree that it is a group scheming in the background but there are behaviours on here that support group think that favors what they believe is Funcom being just.

CrispyCrackling:

Please stay on topic it’s not hard

I’ll let you know what I think once I am done work if the post is still standing.

Fyi I’m with you. You’re free to DM me if necessary.

darthphysicist · 2023-04-28T14:41:01.482Z

Any time in life you benefit from things provided by another, you give up any control in the matter. Funcom servers are no different.

Taemien · 2023-04-28T14:44:45.726Z

CrispyCrackling:

Sometimes people make mistakes?

Irrelevant.

Server owners have the right to determine who plays and who doesn’t play on their servers. Regardless of who that owner is.

If you get banned off a Funcom server its because Funcom doesn’t want you on their server. Innocence doesn’t matter.

biggcane55:

buy Valheim. It is getting better and better every expansin. Plus they are honest on what a server can handle. 10 players.

This is false. Utterly so.

Serverblend can easily run a Conan Server in excess of 40 players with 20+ mods. The same server hardware being used resulted in massive issues with Valheim with only 3 players connected. Valheim maxes out at 2 before issues crop up (such as taking damage from NPCs you cannot see, or falling through ships and other objects).

erjoh · 2023-04-28T15:02:55.795Z

Kikigirl:

I’ll never agree that it is a group scheming in the background

Oh come on. It’s not the first time I have been suspected to be involved in some sort of conspiracy. Let me have my fun.

Kikigirl:

they believe is Funcom being just.

Taemien:

Server owners have the right to determine who plays and who doesn’t play on their servers.

These two sum up my feelings of Officials. Its not that I believe FC is just but I don’t see much reason to worry about such things. I don’t see motivation for FC to being petty over their administration of the officials and it’s not like I can do much about it if they are. So I go on playing my little game with full understanding I am very much not in control but I’m taking advantage of their charity to house servers for free for my online play so I don’t have to work as much to get it elsewhere. I have yet to be enforced on but that could be just luck or it could be how I play and build. There are some folks I see enforced on that I don’t trust their claims of innocence and there are some that I do and feel for them.

I also think there is a fundamental disconnect between FC and the players about what is important in this game. I see FC taking the stance that they building up is the main part of the game. The acts of collection is far more valuable than the collection itself. While a vast majority of players are deeply connected to the stuff. I will say that by taking FC’s stance, as a player, has been quite enjoyable as I build up to a point, start getting bored, just refresh with the idea/lie that I’ll come back to play it, to just abandoning the base as the new ones get my attention more.

CodeMage · 2023-04-28T15:19:39.344Z

CrispyCrackling:

• Should the Terms of conduct be Amended?
“Suspensions are not open to appeal”. Leaving no room for genuine mistakes that a moderator may make.

There are good arguments for both “yes” and “no”. On the one hand, a temporary suspension can still wipe you completely out, so it would be good to be able to overturn it if it was really undeserved. On the other hand, if they’re already struggling to deal with the current ticket volume, adding more tickets from everyone who thinks their suspension was unjust – and that’s everyone, even people who know they broke the rules – would make things worse.

CrispyCrackling:

• Should Moderators give message warnings of 48hours?
Allowing players, a chance to take corrective action regarding “Official Building restrictions”, at least as a temporary policy until the game is fixed.

A lot of assumptions have been made

The biggest of those assumptions is that the game needs to be “fixed” so that the moderation will work correctly.

A related assumption is that they’re moderating the servers for performance reasons only.

Both of these assumptions are false. There are problems with official server moderation, and those problems need to be fixed, but those problems are with the moderation process, not with the game itself.

Specifically, the biggest problem with the moderation is that they never explain to the players why they were suspended or banned. As a result, people come here to complain about how they were innocent and the game needs to be fixed, without having any clear knowledge – let alone evidence – about why they got suspended or banned.

Even worse, those same people will, after spamming the forums with multiple threads about moderation, eventually go back to official servers and find themselves in the same situation again, because Funcom gave them no useful information and they don’t know how to avoid getting suspended again.

So the answer to your question is: it doesn’t matter, because a warning wouldn’t help. If they don’t tell you why you were suspended in any useful detail, what makes you think they will give you any useful detail when warning you that you’re in violation of rules?

CrispyCrackling:

• Are account suspensions of 14days for a first-time building offence fair?
Considering hours some players take creating bases and the current state of the game, maybe deleting a base is enough at present.

No, deleting a base is not enough. If you get your base deleted, you’ll still come here to complain about how it was unfair, because you still won’t know why they did it, because they don’t tell you.

As to whether it’s “fair”, ask 10 people what would be fair, and you’ll get 12 different answers. Arguing about what’s fair might work in a democracy, but offering servers for free and making their administration a fully functional democracy is a ridiculous idea.

CrispyCrackling:

• Should players seek help elsewhere in finding a solution?
Would it help if more players inform the provider of a Platform, e.g., Playstation, Microsoft etc. As they like to have a certain quality of service to keep most customers happy and may assist in finding a solution if made aware.

By all means, the players who keep coming up with this question should do it. I’ve lost count of times I’ve seen someone bluster and post either explicit or implied threats of legal action and similar things.

Fact of the matter is Funcom has a legal department and they’re better at covering Funcom’s ass than the armchair lawyers here are at coming up with ways to “fight back”.

Funcom isn’t breaking any laws or rules or terms of service. They know it. Microsoft knows it. Sony knows it. No appeal to authority will help you, but I really wish you and everyone else who comes up with these ideas would actually try, because maybe that would help you approach this in more productive and constructive ways.

Dzonatas · 2023-04-28T15:19:59.996Z

erjoh:

The acts of collection is far more valuable than the collection itself.

Okay, the age of “digital edition” consoles. This (solid state) is the way. One thing consoles have that the PC doesn’t is a set of standards to follow. I would never do a PC versus console lan party with modern controllers. It would be a good time to invest in “XR”, a standard for cross play with 3D headsets and 3D controllers.

This post probably doesn’t even scratch an itch, but you know. “Mods” point us to a DMCA. “Mods” are also the preferred way to upgrade the game. (Works both ways)

Taemien · 2023-04-28T15:22:18.521Z

Its definitely interesting to think about. You have a few positions:

You have the idea of servers FC would like to offer.
You have the reality of what servers FC can offer.
You have the idea of servers players think should be offered.
You have the reality of how players play on the servers offered.

The issue with those 4 points is they are entirely different. The even bigger issue is points 1 and 3 change depending on which developer and which player you ask. While there is nothing wrong with that difference of opinion with player to player or even developer to developer.

But what people need to realize is that Point 2 will always be the reality. And when they face a ban. Its not so much that they don’t like the person banned, or don’t care about the person banned, they have just determined or believe that allowing that person to continue to play is incompatible to the reality of running the server in the way they have available to offering it to the general public.

The idea that a player could be breaking a rule or policy without doing anything they consider unethical or immoral is something players have a hard time accepting. Which is why I said innocence is pretty much irrelevant (though if you’re guilty then being in violation is automatic). If a player has done nothing unethical or immoral, but still banned, then they have simply been determined to be incompatible.

But this is also why Umbrols (I believe it was) has gone on to say that such players are still free to play the game in singleplayer or in other private servers. Its effectively telling the players “You can play that way, just not here.”

I don’t know if communicating that would make any difference. I mean would players honestly feel better if they were locked out of the server and told, “Thank you for your interest in our servers. But unfortunately we have restricted access based on your playstyle being incompatible with our server community.” Instead of being told they were suspended or banned? I don’t think it would… but maybe it would.

erjoh · 2023-04-28T15:32:38.804Z

Taemien:

I don’t think it would

Agreed. Too many equate Officials as the game itself and that is where feeling get hurt. No different than people equating the player character with the player, themselves (and the resulting cheese to gain leverages by using out of game information).