The changes to Survival are bad and you should feel bad

Here’s a scary thought. If Funcom thought that 20 points into survival to get the old perk was too good, what do you reckon they think about the fifth encumbrance perk?


I cant remember who said it on a dev stream but “they didnt like it”. It will go in time.

So, lets add new perks allowing us to customize our characters…and actually got a good farming build that you could go farm in…aaaaand BANHAMMER!

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The new perk is too weak.

It only seems to save the weight of a second water skin. Encumbrance instead allows to carry dozens of additional water skins - or even more useful items.

The farming perk only added some convenience, which can hardly be called overpowered as it has hardly any influence on character power or advancement. The actual time saved in farming is probably very, very low, as most time is used for movement. The actual harvesting already is very fast, with perk or without it.

Easiest fix is just to revert the change. Or, if the Dev in charge cannot swallow that, make the new perk more useful. My suggestion: add a 5% chance to harvest random rare resources, e. g. silver/gold from stone, demon blood from undead, ichor from animals and so on.

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In my opinion the 30 survival perk was not too op because you actually had to invest 30 points and it was only useful for some very specific things. Only ones that come to mind are poison/antidotes and Hollowbone. Also offered an advantage for getting food but that’s just not worth it because you can easily kill another elephant and end up with even more.

Now with the new changes there is no reason for me to ever invest any points into survival unless I want to run a full legendary fight build with 40 survival.
Hard worker perk itsself is simply not worth 30 points because it only effectively doubles your tools lifespan. And I don’t think I even have to talk about the “Is a total waste if points” perk

The original 30 perk for survival has been removed from the game.

I’m sorry Ignasis but we’ve all made many, many posts and discussions about this topic discussing it in constructive, well reasoned, logical ways. We’ve done this time and time again since the update dropped on TestLive. All we got for our feedback was silence. If you want the players and forum participants to continue to contribute constructive criticism and feedback, then it would be a good idea for you all to actually consider repsonding to that feedback

When all we get is silence, what you get is going to be frustration. And I can tell you right now, ‘A couple more days’ is not going to change how poor of an idea Waste Not objectively is.


I never used survival and now less reason. Only three easier to kill mobs than farm mats even at lower level. Survival was always useless on PvP server. Maybe in pve it had a niche Idk.
Might as well just remove survival from game entirely.
Immune to poison? Potion gives that lol. Thirsty? Waterskin. Eat Raw food? Whar? Can’t build fire? Bronzed physique 50 points and only -10% damage? That’s a waste if points too.
Survival was always a little junk and now its just completely useless not just PvP but over now too.


Give back survival perk I don’t care about. Water omg I can just have 2-4 x water skin I don’t need perk for it and make. Vitality perk better after old healing food change why it stil. There ? I don’t get it how you guys work funcom if I want change healing system. Then I need change the perk too from food healing. Go check steam funcom you are killing the game by this changes you doing random.

Give us back old roll system and old bubbel that trep don’t go throw it and make it less cost

New map you have 0000000.0 spot for defance all are flat point less u can wipe any on less 20m I don’t get this. Do you ever play pvp ?? Nerf this damn horse. Dmg and serph pet And pls give love too defance. Side too I hope next part of map are just not copy past. This. Map all mountain all area look close same it feel it cheap work all copy just smal. Different. Old map look more epic a lot of places are so epic nothing look like copy past. Don’t rush stuff give it time and love we don’t rush you


Is 100% bad idea change this perk and replace for a useless as it is now really useless.


This is something Alex hinted was an issue over a year ago. It has so much weight it tugs on most in-game mechanics in an unbalanced way.

I agree with you but we’re a minority and a large part of the community will fight tooth and nail against it.

I personally see it getting axed / nerfed by 2.3.


I think Survival has always been marginal as a place to put points; the changes make it even more so. I’d be interested to know what the issue with efficient butchery was because I’m not thinking of any exploitative way it could be used. Hard worker being moved is more annoyance than anything; can always just respec to hit it and then respec back.


I also hate the fact that you almost have to get that perk in order to farm large amounts of things, but would only support a change if the weight system itself also got overhauled. Simply removing the perk without any improvements everywhere else would be awful.

But we already have other options. Use bearers, caravan pets, or a camel. No weight system overhaul needed.

In fact the “Carry a Mountain of Stone in My Back Pocket” perk is a big reason why the above are so under utilized.


I don’t consider these options a good alternative. After late game with good tools you get overemcumbered with three nodes, and have to transfer loot to your carrier. Thats terrible. Not mentioning limited slots, when you don’t have big units like elephants and such

I wonder how good would it be if instead of having infinite carrying capacity with 50 enc we could instead make armor weightless. Obviously not as good, so perhaps becoming a cheaper perk at 30-40.

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I really liked the old tier 2 perk.

Grinding translates to tedium, as ARK has noticed, and has followed through with a permanent 2x harvesting amounts.

It is my humble opinion that convenience isn’t something that needs to be balanced, if convenience is symptomatic of an inconvenience. Artificial challenge can still be achieved while making convenience accessible.

Having to choose one’s inconveniences doesn’t strike me as “interesting”.

What I find interesting is preparing oneself for a long journey. Not being annoyed by mutually exclusive option which lead to a sub-par experience.

“One misses a luxury unknown” - therefore it’s quite a shame that the entire community has grown up with survival perk 2.

I generally agree with most of the changes FC made… the changes to survival perk is not one i see a point in.


Interesting. My initial thought was that it’d be fairly useless to me since I’m currently wandering around in light armor with weight reduction kits on it anyway, so it would make little difference. But then, that’s what would make it an interesting choice - you start having the option to trade off other stats for the ability to move freely in heavy armor, or move freely in light armor but have more attribute points available. The more I think about it, the more I feel like it could have a really good effect of introducing variety into the overall metagame :slight_smile:


This is exactly why Funcom needs constructive, informative feedback rather than angry white noise. The latter informs them that they messed up, and sure, they could offer us an apology for that. But it won’t tell them how we’d want things to be instead, so no amount of “working hard to fix it” won’t help if we don’t tell them how we’d like things to be.

That’s why feedback such as “this change is bad and you should feel bad” isn’t useful feedback, except in a few corner-case scenarios where simply reverting the change is an acceptable solution. In most cases, though, changes were made because the feature needs to be changed. The Survival perks were considered bad for the game’s economy, so going back to the earlier versions is not likely to be an option they’re willing to consider without solid arguments.

(Mind you, I don’t necessarily agree with Funcom’s often heavy-handed approach to changing features, especially on the nerfing department. But it’s not likely that Funcom simply wants to pay for programmer man-hours to change things for the sake of change - in their analysis, the feature needed to be changed somehow. Again, that’s why our constructive feedback is valuable, so that the changes they made will be for the better.)

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Yeah now thinking about it would benefit more heavy armor users (where i can relate). Seems like light armors are 3~4 times lighter, so this would literally mean 3~4 times less useful when taking this perk, and thats not good :confused:

What about:
Deep pockets
Your armor allows you to carry more items. Heavier armors provide extra carry weight.

Now getting into numbers, this could mean that a full set of heavy armor provides enough to compensate its total weight increase (so basically weightless), while medium and light would also do that, but provide a little bit extra to compensate their lower (weight).

Light darfari sets provides around 17 weight total, while cimmerian heavy stays around 85.
This would mean:

Heavy gets 85-90 weight bonus total, redering the armor set “weightless”
Light gets 40-50 (double its total weight) weight bonus, so your armor is weightless and you still get the extra benefit from the perk, even with lighter sets.

Every perk point in emcumberance gives 7 carrying capacity, so you would be getting some nice value by getting these perks, compared to raw attributes alone.


You see, I’m not so sure it isn’t good - the very fact that the perk might be 3-4 times less useful for someone using light armor can be seen as an upside rather than a down. I feel like maybe the top level perks should be things that, while objectively desirable in their own right, aren’t necessarily good fits for every build. Maybe top tier in Encumbrance shouldn’t be a great fit for someone that spends their time in light armor - maybe an agility or grit perk could be more relevant (or vitality)? (Perhaps something like having the double jump affected in some way by armor weight, similar to climbing?) At the moment there is considerable incentive driving players towards the same approximate stats and perks, even with fairly different playing styles. If top tier perks were good, but maybe a little narrower in their ideal use, perhaps that could actually drive greater variety as there becomes more incentive to specialise in different ways? I don’t know, but that’s part of why I found your original idea so interesting because it got me thinking down these lines :slight_smile:

Deep Pockets also seems cool - and does seem more ‘balanced’ on the numbers - I’m just not sure it needs to be :slight_smile:

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Fair enough, heavy investments usually correlate to more unique playstyles, and thats nice :slight_smile:

its even something we can see in some high perks already, even if some of them are arguably not that useful. Poison immunity, 25% health damage boost, double jump.

I hope that if they ever change the 50 Enc per, it gets at least changed to something as unique/interesting as it is right now.

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