The future of PvP in SWL

pvp

#341

This really is some good news! Also I’ve heard they were unaware that a Shambala Event is taking place but there’s been some requests that it gets added to the splash screen. So well see what happens. Really I’m just glad there’s talk of getting Fusang back, the one thing I didn’t want the shamabala event to accomplish is a false belief that the PvP community was fine with just having Shambala.


#342

we are not, we want sang back


#343

That was my worry also - which is why i mentioned it in the review.
Possibly a list of problems and solutions would be beneficial for the devs to peruse over since we are the ones doing the PVP?

I have a list from the last match of noticeable flaws.

Chris seems very receptive and forthcoming. I also like the community centric approach he seems to have, from asking what the community want, to answering questions.

I think having information readily available for them to glean ideas and to work on would help direct them down the right path rather than there be no information at hand and risk them working on something that would ultimately be not in PVP’s best interests. There are certain things needing to be addressed and are quite literally the elephant in the room as it were when it comes to The Holy Trinity roles and how they work hand in hand with PVE and PVP - the EFB, glyphing and signets.

There’s a lot to be taken into account and certain things need to be in the minds of all when looking at whats best and how best to achieve it with the resources available, reachable and achievable goals and ideals (not asking for the beating heart served on a sliver platter)

Personally I am focused on core values of PVP and this is where i’m looking at for Fusang

M


#344

lemmings…! cliff, smell the vapour
some rebalancing would definitely need to be done before this can even be a viable option , I just hope if and that’s a big IF the devs do indeed reimplement Fusang that all weapons are balanced according so that no one weapon has a greater superior advantage over another, heaven forbid we have a clone army of hammer and AR users all with same builds , think this through proper so that all classes of weapons can be a viable choice in pvp , other wise it become like another El Dorado bore fest with one dimensional Temps * no names you know who you were all bunny hoping with AR’s gee. the height of originality bar none… DO IT RIGHT THE 1st Time , test it tweak it so pvp is fun for all and not just the select few… . lets hope FC heed it :slight_smile: PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH and kill all temps with love and an evulsion pull…


#345

Honestly, there is only ONE way to do this. Give every weapon the same abilities with the same effects and synergies (but that would be very boring). What I mean by this is that its virtually impossible. It is also extremely time consuming which is one of the reasons I would prefer they don’t stress over it. There will always be a “best” build and people will gravitate towards that. Then when they nerf/re-balance there will be a new “best” build and the cycle repeats indefinitely. I certainly don’t care if things are unbalanced between the weapons provided nothing is outright broken. I never was a bunny hopping AR user back in TSW, I certainly tried it since I had everything to make it work well but unfortunately it was actually a very bad build for working together as a team. It was a kill farming build and nothing more which is sometimes good, but if that’s all your team is then its easy to counter.


#346

Remark: I played AR mostly and i was never jumping. I also absolutely hate “bunnyhoppers” in Shooters/games like BF2 for example. For me thats basically cheating. ^^


#347

What if the dude is roleplaying a rabbit? :stuck_out_tongue:


#348

Well … Star Wars for example has no rabbits, so there isn´t much sense in RPing a Rabbit.^^


#349

Purple Ash-rabbits live in Sullust, and Durni’s live in Corellia. I used to to make Rancor DNA Durni’s with my SWG Bio-Engineer :smiley:


#350

Do they do a lot of hopping?


#351

#352

I in TSW played mostly AR to , but i like yourself was never a jumper, although as i recall it there were those cross faction who did ( their choice wouldn’t be mine )
but again in SWL i play AR & with incendiary grenade you actually do have to jump sometimes to get it to actually land on the target because unlike the grenade elite it just will not fire because of the reticle targeting.
This mechanic in the beginning made it difficult for me to land the grenade but i’m kinda used to it now & i just automatically shift my camera angle when i need to.


#353

The Novella
(warning verbose information inc as per from me)

I recall the issue with the “Bunnyhopping” and when it arose in TSW, mainly in PVP. I never saw it in a dungeon nor anywhere else. There was this Templar who did it all the time when it was realised, I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) it broke animation so you could get more hits? I’m not entirely certain -

I played mainly Fist/pistol or Fist/chaos being a healer and was hammer/pistol for anti heal. I tried the bunnyhop thing with AR and found there to be nothing that would break animation like they suggested, perhaps i just couldn’t get it to work the same way i dunno, I found it actually broke your own ability from being able to be cast - because you were jumping, which put an end to a very short test using the AR in PVP.

However the issue in SWL with AR jumps i believe comes from the two very different ways in which the IG and HEG work in relation to the reticle and the option of Simple ground targeting not applying the same way.

One (the Incidinary Grenade) is a GTAoE the other (the High Explosive Grenade) is a TAoE -
The issue being with reticle target and actual target.
Screenies below with examples of my findings that have bothered me immensely since using it.

Here I am using “Burst Fire” - it lands fluidly, perfectly and without issue - however - note how the reticle is not actually pointed at the target - its pointing to the floor AND off centre, in fact in between two Anima sims.
Yet still, I can hit this Anima sim as if TAB target has it locked for me. - Simple and easy. Wonderful.

But when i go to use Incidinary Grenade - The GTAoE ability has a completely different requirement.
It automatically places the GTAoE directly where the Reticle is pointing - so it requires me to use my mouse to move it into position or if it’s in front - i can jump to land the reticle at its feet for easy placement -
I will add that The Ultimate Ability also is a GTAoE but DOES NOT require you to use it in the same way as this - so both are very different indeed.

Here you can see the ultimate has just been cast from the same angle and did not require me to move anything at all. My guess is that this is because of Simple Ground Target option - which enables you to land the GTAoE of the Ultimate Ability directly onto the target at its feet, just like it describes it does - even if it’s not on your reticle target, this is also exactly the same for HEG, no need to do anything except fire away and it lands onto the target you were firing at anyway - so, Why does IG not work in the same way?

My only conclusion is that somewhere in the tampering of the mechanics of how these abilities work with the GTAoE and TAoE is that Incidinary Grenade has somehow been left off the Simple Ground Target list or is completely broken somehow in it’s targeting methods - by mistake or design? Who knows - But the only way to land an IG is if you have your screen reticle level with the target and looking directly at it or jump to land it on the target so it doesn’t affect the comfortability of your chosen screen placement angle - which for me is of around thr 45 degree right angle mark and not level - I personally DO NOT play looking directly at ANY target - its the worst view to have in any dungeon,

In the aspect of this working in PVP i don’t think it would be possible to pull off well or at all and would be most likely impossible to use in SWL PVP given that people move around so much so trying to land an IG on anyone would be nigh on impossible, only the Elite would be able to be used effectively - if at all - there were much more potent builds being used in the last shambala match than AR users
What works for stationary targets such as dungeons, regionals and megas as it were - doesn’t work on human players who have thought capability to move with strategic ability.
You can learn the mechanics of any dungeon or raid, hell it’s been proven that with enough practice at it you can play it upside down - it’s just routine. Even a monkey can play a game. But PVP is very, very different. Even by Chris’s own knowledge he knows that PVP has very different elements that are unique to gameplay and should be treated as such.

TBH this is my main reason i stopped using AR because of the very badly designed mechanic behind one if its most highest sources of its DPS. I play only via keyboard i do not use a mouse except for clicking in the inventory, the agents, yes/no - basically all the things NON gameplay related - everything else i.e abilities, movement etc for gameplay i use keyboard so this to me was not ideal - whereas i had absolutely ZERO problems with this in TSW - because we had TAB targeting.


Here is another issue with it - the tank requests us to kill, in the following order the ever so familiar B _ I _ C
yet if you look closely, I am hitting THROUGH Brutus and actually hitting Cassius. This lasted throughout the majority of the fight, even when i got flames on me and ran around, by the time i got back i was still somehow targeting Cassius with absolutely NO WAY to shift it off him.
Vital fights like this that require target selection (Dr Klein and the adds is another example) is what will make it difficult in both PVP and PVE. Even as healer on Klien - i have to jump to land my reticle onto Klien, so i can see casts. Due to me having the angle i play at which is most comfortable - the reticle is pointing to the ground, i often run up to him to make the reticle look at his feet to keep some kind of lock on him.

The reticle system as it is now is shockingly bad and TAB target is merely just turned off in game with a reticle overlay onto the screen, they could very easily turn it back on and have it as an option just like reticle was an option to have back in TSW. I have no idea why they would not do so when posed with problems such as the AR causes with targeting. I’ve found myself running around the Oni camp in Kaidan frustrated at the fact i am still targeting an already shot at and busted up Oni cache while being smacked in the face by it’s overseer - not Funn at all.

I would like to add that the people i see using the “Jump” method for the purpose to break ability casts the most - is a tank using Raging Volcano.
The AR user using the jump method it seems is trying to cope with something that looks completely borked as it is.

If other people may have other issues they would like to report with weapons then they should do so.
I know also that my pistols for no apparent reason spin a matching set of chambers when i’m not even using them, i might have used active dodge or ran through a doorway and there they go - spinny spinny onto white, blue or red.

These are your chosen weapons and ones you love to play with the most - Chris seems very open to ideas and has mentioned that there will be changes to the re-balancing of weapons - which includes the abilities and passives they are in and TBH if the information as regards what is problematic for us in both PVE and PVP and how best to adjust it isn’t readily available for the systems guy to pick away at - then we will have no-one to blame but ourselves for not highlighting with a sense of urgency the true roots of the problems and how best to manage or adjust them.
I will keep a check on how well the weapons (including abilities) i choose to use, perform in both PVE and PVP.


#354

This was actually my experience also. To add to that even without jumping around like a bunny I was able to top kills with an AR build quite consistently so I’m more inclined to believe that “bunny hopping” was more of a play style used by a select few notable dps players then it was an advantageous exploit of some type. I think in terms of reaction time it allowed dps players to spin around faster and is a fairly typical play style for a lot of first person shooters.

Also a very common theme in PvP is “OMG I can’t beat x player, that thing hes doing is unusual it must be an exploit.”


#355

Aye, i wasn’t all that bothered about the bunny hop in general, as it really didn’t affect me at all, except i would find myself often saying “Will you bloody stay still you little :poop:!”

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#356

can some mod remove this please

This topic will close 14 days after the last reply.


#357

That won’t happen scratch
Even if i have to come here and start doing
“Granny went to the market and bought some eggs”


#358

Granny went to the market and bought some eggs
And flour


#359

Granny went to the market and bought some eggs
and flour
and milk


#360

After Chris said that PvP is not dead and Fusang… I have found myself playing again and tweaking Signets. Heck, I even spend some real money for Agent stuff and Cache keys.