The future of PvP in SWL

pvp

#87

That was always my complaint in the secret world to be honest: powers and abilities being nerfed because they “were op”. But time and again if I asked “why” they were OP the answer was always: “well you must understand that in pvp…” nerfing powers outside pvp to make pvp better only antagonizes the pve community; and discourages them from taking in the PVP mechanics. If they can bring back PVP without constantly taking things away from the PVE player? that would be amazing for all I’d think.


#88

I do agree with that and I hope that it will be dealt with better in the future should PvP be reintroduced in any meaningful way. Its much harder to balance PvP then it is to do so in PvE content but at the end of the day even if PvP were to come back to SWL it would still only probably be 10% of the player base at most that would be invested in it. Personally I’d rather ust see “OP” skills removed from the PvP grounds and that would be a small price to pay to keep both sides content.

I’d never claimed that PvP wasn’t broken it actually was in some ways. Regarding ques it was “working as intended” but not the best system I agree. A counter was to group with one other player and you would then be placed in a higher priority. For example if a 5man pre-made was qued for Stonehenge and they got in a match if you were to group with at least one other player that 5man pre-made would be skipped on the following pop.

Also PvP was certainly not for those discouraged by a loss. In fact I remember in my early times PvP’ing I would spend match after match just getting killed left right and center. But I learned to enjoy that challenge and over time found ways to counter builds, found strategies that worked better and learned who to targets and more importantly who not to target.

Anyway’s at the end of the day I always remember how I was early in TSW. I hated PvP, hated feeling helpless against groups that were far better at the time and if you had asked me then I would have agreed with you. But after giving it a chance and taking on the challenge I ended up meeting a lot of amazing players and having some of the most epic fights and experiences that I have ever experienced in this game.


#90

PvP uniforms arent “Faction locked”. You can use you TSW PvP outfit in any other Faction if gender is same. You just need to export/import it via outfit addon, like Fashionista.


#91

This is my thought also, but then again I am not a (game) programmer. I was just starting to get into PVP when SWL came out, but never really got the point of Shambala…


#92

Imo, discussions about did PvP broke PvE or did PvE broke PvP is up to persont taste/opinion to the matter.

Imo, only notable effect other than Gear related, was making Anima Shot having cast time and removing “snare” effect from cast time attacks. Before this modification, hugest impact was making Suppressing Fire “single” Hit skill from “multi hit” Frenzy attack. Suppressing Fire was just crazy proc skill before this update.

This Anima Shot change didnt “ruin” PvE (like peoples rage about it), but it made PvP leeches even more effective, because of one Gear piece and I mean Woodcutter necklace. Because of this, everyone drop Penetration and invest to Crit Chance more. Having higher Crit Chance was thing what basically killed “Glance Tank” breed, because Crit Hit was calculated before Hit/Glance roll. And Crit Chance based Passives are amazing. You can have Corrupt, Depilitate and Purge chance and stack of Proc damage with just one Crit Hit.

Example, having High Gear based Crit chance (because you have Woodcutter), With Anima Burst (without snare effect), with Parasite Augment, and with stack of Crit chance (%) additive passives, you could run anyones Buffs off, and eventually kill them no matter did they have defensive stacks from NM Raid gear… because you could have best about 70% Crit Chance without CD’s all the time (especially if you have Riposte Head signet).

This was what, imo, unbalanced everything. Woodcutter Talisman, nothing else. And was it PvE or PvP thing, its up to everyones opinion :wink:


#93

My male original male templar has all PVP outfits unlocked, since this toon is a female - she can not wear any of his unlocked outfits. Which is stupid coz i could make another male temp and he would have all pvp outfits but never have set foot in pvp unless he was called the same name as original toon. The one i really want is the black healer outfit


#94

I agree with Scratch factionless pvp is not what i would want to see, i enjoyed fighting scratch in the war zones & enjoy fighting with him in the pve area’s , as for pvp needing incentive well maybe in shamblahblah for some it is needed & that is fine , but most of us old pvp’ers know that pvp is it’s own reward & we do it because it’s fun & exciting. Will we ever get to see our old pvp zones back in SWL? i think there is more chance of hell freezing over , SWL is looking more & more like a solo game to me with far less emphasis on group content, it really is still just a shell , no implementation of the missing dungeons thus far & i think the reality is if you look at the numbers playing it’s easy to see that the game is not in any way the kind of success that Funcom had hoped for & it will be dropped like a hot stone just like TSW was, not being negative just realistic.


#95

BTW everybody - i love how fast this is becoming a steady topic on the new forum with daily interaction and replies, feedback and suggestions of our own so they can see WE as a community want it to work for SWL and without real direct input from the powers that be we have no reason not to discuss its possible re-introduction in the future.
If you don’t count certain high ranking topics on the forum, because they are nothing to do with the game really, such as “Hello There” and “places we will not be” … then this is the highest ranking for discussing a feature/addition that should, despite previous unknown reasons, be present in SWL.

#PVP :dragon: :templar: :dolphin:
(i couldn’t find a lumie emoji so they have to make do with a dolphin, coz squeaks and clicks and wot not)


#96

The factions were the blood of this game.
Without it, this universe is in a vegetative state.
It’s flat and without taste, especially since nothing new and substential came out in years.


#97

Just gonna drop in and say hi, it’s good to see some old faces here. Even you darxide. :kissing_heart:

I’ll concede that i haven’t played SWL much and might be totally wrong, but what i saw of it in launch and how the EFB works, i don’t see it’s pvp meta being as alive and diverse as it was in TSW.
I myself don’t have much of an imagination and am super boring, but seeing other people evolve and adapt their builds was always fascinating.

Now, that being said i would absolutely get back into SWL if it had some sort pvp update, even just bringing the old maps back would do it for me (shallowbala is not proper pvp). Yes, SWL combat is a shadow of TSW:s in complexity, creativity and build diversion imo, but i can see pvp still being enjoyable.

Going to actually reinstall SWL and see what’s up, maybe Funcom will someday see PVP:s value to endgame as stopgap content if nothing else and give us our old maps back.
Maybe even reinstall TSW. Some old school pvp would be :pogchamp:


#98

Sadly this is accurate. As negative as it may seem this appears to be the focus of the game currently. It’s missing over 50% of the old group content we once had and what the general trend with things like the agent system is that people log in do some dailies send agents out on missions and log out. I’ve seen almost 60% of the endgame community leave or drastically reduce there play time over the last few months and the agent system hasn’t done anything to change that. I’m not certain that season 2 will have a lasting effect either. Don’t get me wrong the story content is amazing in this game but it’s generally 1-2 weeks of playtime for the months of development that goes into it. PvP and group content in general however provides the opposite effect.


#100

Would take some refining but that’s interesting mechanic indeed.


#101

What you suggest about pvp & group content having longevity & the potential of retaining the playerbase is actually the most poignant of mentionings imo Drenneth & that is the relevant point that Funcom seems to keep missing , do they want a disposable game where solo players just sit through the story then move on? or do they actually want a game that has longevity? it makes you wonder where their heads are at or maybe it is us who cannot see that this is a disposable game now & this is just Funcom taking us around the block for a spin one more time?


#102

I would want to avoid the need to tempt anyone into PVP that really didn’t want to be there in the first place with anything that effects something else other than PVP itself.

We have to invest in it’s own interest for it to survive naturally.
We had that problem when it was added to the daily challenge list.

There should be nothing on offer IMO other than it’s purpose of the chronicle for PVP, Faction Buffs and the usual payment of bags and shards for a win in ED/SH and just shards for a lose.
The tallying scores shown and kills counted etc like before and the contribution to world buffs
Fusang having it’s persistent effects gained through capture/defend objectives.

We all know how it used to work and it should work like that again since it was it’s most simplest and workable solution.

There should be no expectations of “extras” neither.
The enjoyment of epic battles outweighs any need for a reward of any kind.

out of those winning bags from any source in SWL we already have the chance of some nice loot to come out of it. So there really is no need to add anything else as a means of incentive.

Rewards as such should be based on the kill count, the matches won and achievements gained throughout your time in PVP.

PVP Gadgets, titles, outfits, Claimable annual Domination Dog tags i’ve suggested and more… PVP accessories such as banners and flags for Fusang facilities if you own them (the horror ensued when you tear down someones newly masted winning flags fills me glee at the thought)

There’s lots to be said about what could happen for PVP and for it to work, but i do think the main things that would keep it ticking are naturally available.


#103

I gave up on cliff jumping Shambles months ago. Yes you can get shards, but it was so lame and not fun, as to not be worth doing, IMHO. Hide behind the wall and watch people lemming jump off cliffs - no thanks.

Abilities can be made to work ONLY in PvE or PvP, I remember EQ2 had that years ago when PvP still existed. If you can implement EF, you can make ability A only active in PvP, so it would not affect PVers in anyway. Yes you may need to balance things, but overall big changes like the AR ability that Pver’s had a fit about in TSW (Anima Shot??), wouldn’t happen.

But, I would like some way to get people to try PvP. Most people that don’t, have a preconceived notion about how awful it is, having been abused by the few dicks in PvP that like to spawn camp (there were some in TSW with the super high kill counts doing that in Stonehenge – which I found disappointing). That turns people off and doesn’t let them experience PvP - really good matches - and find they don’t mind the death and love the excitement. I mean if a dungeon started with the final boss and you died the minute you stuck your nose in, many people would be less inclined to run dungeons. You have to pay your dues with much death in PvP, like many wipes in a raid, but eventually it gets better, you just have to help people get to that point!

As for rewards, if the gadgets/outfits, etc., remain PvP only, then there can’t be a "OMG I have to do PvP to get x either to be uber in dungeons”. Although to be fair, if Agents ONLY drop in a dungeon or scenario, then there should be ones that ONLY drop in PvP.

Maybe a weekly optional challenge reward? Something that isn’t a ‘have to do’ but can do, to get an extra whatever.


#104

It’s very apparent and clear to all that the decision to place Shambala as the sole source of “PVP” in SWL was based on a flawed statistic due to the rewards it held in TSW via Signets. They were much needed signets by everybody and so with it being the only way to obtain them other than the AH - it showed Shambala as being “the most popular PVP zone” - a false outcome.

Now Shambala does not offer “Signet Rewards” it shows it for what it really is, not very good at all.
The fact they have coupled the same reward win/lose holds even less appeal to anyone wanting to even consider it. But i am not a Shambala fan and never have been. Playing only a handful of times in TSW and once in SWL.

With this in mind you have to remember that placing any sort of PVP on a daily challenge does not become optional as you need to fill out ALL of the daily challenges to be eligible for the Final reward. Which means you will get all and sundry haphazardly wandering into any PVP zone just for a daily only to end up being picked off for a kill mission by someone in PVP and the whole “I can’t get my daily done” complaints which ultimately end up being laid at the PVPers feet because they are the ones doing the killing. When for a PVPer in PVP - that is their job. To have it diminished, reduced, trivialsed or w/e is not the way forward IMO.

Agents to me reflect NPC chars and in PVP there are no NPC’s so a representative Agent would not be necessary. Again, if you introduce an Agent as a drop in PVP you end up with more people there for not the right reason.


#105

Oh and remember guys - There are no Legends in SWL without PVP.
Just sayin…


#106

So in this topic Next cache ? Pretty please? I jokingly said maybe it will be a pvp cache for the upcoming Fusang update! The post was promptly deleted for being “off topic” and I received a reply from Tron stating that I have been misinformed. I guess that’s the best response we’re gonna get regarding this topic.


#107

I saw both posts & it seems an odd reaction to an innocent post in jest , why the disdain at the mere mention ? because thats the vibe i got , i havn’t been around the forums much so i don’t know if anything of any consequence has actually been stated by them about their plans for pvp , but the response to you seemed unfitting as yours was singled out.


#108

I saw that. But it’s still not a direct response with a reason as to why it can’t or won’t happen.
They can see this and they know that what they have offered out (shambala) doesn’t even cut it with a non PVPer.
As for the suggestion being “off topic” - it was about caches right? Which means open speculation. Without anyone knowing about the future caches available then it’s open to speculation and certainly means everything and anything could and should be freely suggested. To have it removed with that kind of message reveals a certain personal grudge.
I see none have ventured so far as to reply to this here thread with anything at all, yet it has a very valid standing point. Given the way that response was i am very surprised at all that they even have allowed this very thread to exist. After all, it’s not just going to go away. Removing one random comment in a speculative topic because its “off topic” doesn’t make any sense at all.
This thread will only grow and remain seated at the top while all others filter below.
The subject itself will not just go away
They can’t remove the whole populous or the opinion.