The Great Encumbrance Perk Debate


That ship has sailed a long, long time ago.

It was, and it failed miserably. Notable points, for me, were:

  • Refusal to even discuss the topic because it included polls. And that coming from a player who is very vocally pushing his opinion on the perk in a variety of other threads.
  • Certain PVE players insisting that nobody should touch that perk and generally treating every argument as “it’s your opinion” and stopping there, instead of asking more questions to understand that opinion.
  • Frequent snide remarks belittling other people’s arguments and opinions unnecessarily, from both of the “entrenched sides” of the discussion.
  • People ignoring follow-up questions to their arguments in favor of “bashing the other side” and getting pissy when called out on it.
  • Insistence on hyperbole like calling the perk or the removal of it “game breaking”.

Honestly, this thread has outlived its purpose a long time ago and it has devolved mostly into a cesspool of selfish people stonewalling any remaining efforts to try to get to the original point, which was to examine how and why this perk might be a problem and what can be done about it.

Kudos to the few valiant souls who are still trying, but I hope you guys learn the same lesson I did: unless you have full moderator rights and time and will to exercise them without fear, trying to establish a reasonable discussion with random people on Internet is a damn nightmare.

The only positive thing this thread has brought me, personally, is the realization that I’m wasting my time on these forums and that it’s better if I just go back to lurking and posting very occasionally. Hopefully, Funcom will continue killing my interest in the game with their ultra-buggy patches and failed promises to communicate better, so I can free up even more of my time.


Oh that is just a dreadful outcome. This thread was, at one point, the heights of experimentation and collaboration. And then personalities chafed, and rebuffed, and still you persisted. It was an inspiration to lowly formerly one-post with a mic-drop people like me. Your persistence and stamina deserve kudos and appreciation. Warmly.

I think funcom/tencent rather have more players in the game. When I get wiped, I know the feeling of wanting to quit. If a player only gets the cold shoulder, they’ll leave finding no fun. See the problem?

It is a matter of fun. I’m glad there are alpha clans that do a little RP with others, and do not raid every chance they get.

What’s the alternative? Having the raiders bust your base open, and (bombing) letting everything out of their container/station only to decay. Everything. See, these perps didn’t want to loot anyway. They didn’t pickup even with the 5 enc. Depressing… all that work.

I’d attest it hadn’t even had a chance to get started…

But no reason to discourage it when it actually has a chance to take place.

Pretty clear this is pointed at me. I wanted to discuss the issue. But conflicting view and explaining why isn’t part of the discussion? When I understood the presented point, I either agreed, asked for further information, or disagreed and presented why.

How are you suggesting the conversation should go?

And this one as well. Just because it wouldn’t stop you from further playing the game, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t for others. Or you asserting you know how everyone would react to changes to this from the onset?

This certainly has been a difficult subject to get into. There is no denying that. But from the very start I have been open to any area of discussion about the perk, but the entire focus has seemed to be on either its removal or heavy handi-capping of it. Of course I would present opposing opinion to this until someone provides reasonable reason to take such action in the first place.

I have had several posters go from calling my opinion irrelevant because ‘I don’t listen to facts’ when I just wasn’t agreeing with his opinion, as well as dismiss my opinion and how I enjoy playing the game as ‘pointless’. Other then pointing it out, I shrugged it off in preference of continuing the conversation. I don’t think I have insulted a single player once and I am sorry for the misunderstanding if anyone feels that way, it certainly wasn’t the intent.

Im sorry you feel this thread failed. Conversations need to be more then one sided…

I don’t know. Maybe we are only capable of single post explanations and leave it at that. Would be nice to actually converse back and forth though.

No, it’s most definitely not pointed at you and I’m surprised you would think that. You’re one of the people who have actually persisted in trying to discuss things instead of simply dismissing the opponent’s view and you’ve kept trying even after I’ve stopped.

This one does include you, I’m afraid, but it includes others who called the perk itself or even obelisks “game breaking”. It causes the discussion to devolve into ridiculous pseudo-arguments such as “I’ve started playing and built a 6x6x2 base and I didn’t need the perk, therefore it’s not game breaking.”

Yeah, there’s been a lot of FYGM in this thread, both from the “the perk must go because I don’t use it” camp and “don’t you dare touch my perk” camp. And a lot of personal attacks, too.

If anything in my post was intentionally directed at you, it was the following:

I see how getting wiped and losing everything is a problem. That’s the #1 reason I don’t play PVP.

Even though I believe that the perk should either be changed or replaced with something that won’t make PVE hell, I am not convinced that this would solve your particular problem, for the same reason you pointed out yourself:

I’ve heard people say that removing the perk would help because the raiders wouldn’t be able to carry the whole vault away. I wonder what they thought would happen to the stuff in the lootbag that the raiders couldn’t carry…

As The Arena tells us, clean up is part of the game.

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I’ve mentioned my idea a few times before, but now I’ve posted it in the Suggestions forum:

So, would you say you’re a funny guy? :wink:

It’s sort of a twofer: I think it would be nice to have it anyway, but it would also help facilitate the replacement of the perk. Of course, they would have to make sure followers don’t die randomly to lava, fall damage or just because the Jupiter is ascendant in Uranus :stuck_out_tongue:

If this was the case, then I apologize for this misunderstanding. I agree that this has been a difficult topic.

Well, this may be a miss-used phrase on my part. But I don’t mean it as a exaggeration, simply how things would personally effect me.

I appreciate it. Sorry for my overreaction.

Most likely a clear and telling sign that I have gotten a bit over zealous here just as well.

Just passionate about a pass-time that I see continually designed and adjusted fairly haphazardly and without much warning over the past two months and I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone is a bit on edge due to this.

It was major bug issues and fear of my base disappearing last year. This year, it’s worry that I log in one day and Funcom removes chunks of the reason I play the game…

Anyways, think I will also follow your queue and ease back into lurking. I enjoy back and forth conversation that broadens perspective. Despite efforts though, it seems like this topic is bound to just go in circles.

Once again, I do appreciate those from the side that tried to rationally get into this issue. Its been rocky but I did recognize efforts on both sides, despite not really getting anywhere.

so i carry 2 of each, plus the enc elixir is easy as well. If you are going to raid with a group, and each has a role, it is not relying on anything. It is called prep. The only real wild card is the sword, and even without that, you can drop your grit and still get the decent raid enc build. Been doing it for @ 2 years, and when i run this build i have never been caught. If anything i get kills because you can trap by not drawing sword and doing a “fake” enc walk. they come in pants down, and with poison tipped sword you open up 2 swings, herbal tea for quick stam regen, and then run. Your guardian fighter (thrall or better yet another clan mate) will clean it up for you.


I never said I go in head first to engage, but as a carrier to have 3 str and 3 grit is an advantage, no matter how you spin it. The goa with the build is not to engage, but to be able to by time. This build is exclusively for farming and carrier with enough umpphh to kill a low skilled fither if necessary to retreat.

Just in case I haven’t said it this week, YOU ARE THE MAN. :+1:

The funny thing is that I thought this was pointed at me when I read it. Had to look to see if I was being closed minded. I’m not sure if I was or was responding to flaws a particular argument.


Okay, this is getting as silly as a certain Robin Williams skit! :smiley:

No, that particular bit wasn’t directed at you, either, but let’s just stop this. This thread is bad enough without turning it into a guessing game of “was it me who said X”. I’m not going to name any names and I’m also not going to name everyone who didn’t do a particular thing, one by one.

We could relieve it of its tension and truly turn it into a skit?



I am beyond surprised you all are still fighting on if this perk should stay or leave, you all do know Funcom will do what it wants and none of these commets will sway them one bit.

Not that we really need to rekindle this thread, but I don’t really agree with that.

Yes, Funcom certainly does have the power to do whatever they want. Its their game. They have surprised us with changes that have been received as largely negative as well.

I am not saying it can’t happen.

However, saying they don’t listen, or that they arn’t swayed is just not true, proven by history. You can go back in history a little as the momentum change to see Funcom hearing the outcry and reversing it.

I personally doubt any changes to the 5th enc perk just because of the chaos and ill will that it would cause.

However, I also think, if it should ever happen in a short sighted way that the populace instantly and violently rejects, I have no doubt it would be reversed as well.

Funcom certainly has listened to us. More accurately though, they seem to like to push changes forward and test the waters live and dial things back after.

I personally detest this sort of development as the game isn’t early access, nor did we volunteer to be their test group when purchasing the game. For those of us that want to help out and dedicate their time there is a test server, and if thats not enough for adequate testing, the Funcom should do what every single software dev team has to do, and get a test group for testing.

I have been pretty happy with the game. I have played way to much of it. But my biggest criticism and dislike of Funcom development is to make major changes and then after the fact, after the buggy unwanted change comes, ask how it is… Thats pretty dirty.

Anyways, I digress… I was going to be done here, or help degrade the post to humor, neither of which is happening with this post. Its up in the air, but if Funcom does listen, hopefully its not retroactively, and no matter which decision they move forward with, its a decision made with care and their entire customer base in mind, not just one side of it.

You were able to make us feel guilty all at once! Like a young exile with their hand stuck in the cookie jar.

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