Time to fix the last one shot mechanic?

I agree that previously there were very specific conditions and a means to work to have goomba. Now it’s simple, so so so simple to do because of Beast of Burden.

I don’t want Beast of Burden removed but I do believe it would benefit the health of the PVP community if the ease of which goomba can be achieved was analyzed and adjusted.

It used to be that maybe you MIGHT come across a raid with the defenders doing goomba and now it is almost common practice for both sides to employ goomba, anywhere from 1-5 doing so.

Not everyone uses cheese tactics (I don’t, it was always random and circumstantial for me before) but when you want to win most will use all abilities and resources available; that includes using these cheesy, easy tactics to “get the job done”.

It’s not exactly fun and isn’t what I’d imagine Funcom had intended as mechanics for all out playing PVP.

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If they add/ change a perk to negate the effect of being crushed id be fine with that as well, as at least it would be a considerayion when speccing for pvp vuilds.

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No, no, you see, Beast of Burden is problematic for unspecified reasons that we don’t want to talk about to avoid derailing the thread, but it definitely has to go, because of those unspecified problems :crazy_face:

I’m willing to bet that whatever “issues” Beast of Burden is supposed to be causing would still be there now that we have things like War Party perk and transportory stones. The Beast of Burden, on PVE(-C) servers, just removes some of the pain that you would have to go through, but doesn’t make problematic things substantially faster or easier.

One of the things it does make much faster and easier is, for example, moving your base – or moving your stuff from an old base you want to dear down to a new one you just built. So if you need to move your base because you’re blocking something you weren’t aware of or causing some other problem – or simply because you wanna move – the new building mechanics and the Beast of Burden perk allow you to do so with relative ease. Remove the Beast of Burden and that becomes a much more painful proposition.

In fact, removing the Beast of Burden would definitely cause additional problems. But hey, let’s leave them unspecified, to avoid derailing the thread :stuck_out_tongue:

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The issues it fixes in addition to the ones already listed are PVE issues. This is a PVP thread. I get that PVE’rs don’t like PVP issues to affect them. I agree with that. I acknowledge that. But I also make the suggestion from a point of view that believes it will benefit both playstyles. So it is NOT a one sided suggestion in regards to PVP or PVE. Unless you want to dispute my stated preferences of playing both playstyles. You’re going to have a hard time with that one.

Not at all.

My own personal preferences, as you know, are PVE and PVE-C (which everyone keeps forgetting about, but actually shares plenty of balancing issues with PVP). As such, I try to keep my participation in these threads limited and focused on PVE(-C) ramifications of proposed changes.

So what I’m disputing here are not your preferences, but your proposed changes and your alleged justifications for them.

In short, the PVP problem of goomba stomp can be solved by changes less invasive and narrower in scope than those you propose without causing additional problems for PVE. So that leaves us with either discussing or not discussing the PVE side of things. If we’re not going to discuss it, your claims that the removal of Beast of Burden would benefit “both” playstyles is exactly as valid is my claim that it would cause significant problems for one of the playstyles. :man_shrugging:

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Similar.

I watched a Rust stream which was just folks running around killing each other with rock.

Not my style.

That’s the idea. I recognize your opinion as valid as mine, just offtopic. I’m not dismissing and willing to discuss it outside this thread where a non-PVP scope is better suited for. Now do you have any input on goomba stomping outside of PVE-styled contrarianism? If not, we can just agree to disagree for another day.

I expressed the rest of my input more succinctly by pressing “like” on the solutions that I consider to be good. But since doing it that way is considered “contrarianism”, let me be more explicit.

I think the two best solutions proposed so far are to disable double jump while overencumbered and to require minimum fall height to perform a one-shot kill. While the latter is less invasive than the former, I personally believe that the former would be easier to implement.

Both would solve the problem of “goomba meta”, both seem to be alternatives accepted by the majority of those who called for bigger nerfs, and neither would have any adverse impact on PVE that I can think of.

PS: My apologies to the PVP community here for the input none of the rest of you asked for, but apparently if I try to avoid unnecessary bloviation and only offer my opinions where they concern me and my preferred playstyles, that’s “contrarianism” :wink:

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Unfortunately I am going to have to decline your generous offer. I am vehemently opposed to changing this perk. Like many members I am very limited in the amount of time I get to play each week. I am generally limited to a couple of hours on Saturday and a couple of hours on Sunday; and that is on a good week! The last thing people need is to have to start making multiple additional trips back and forth, back and forth, for resource harvesting.

Furthermore, when building it is convenient to be able to take out the Beast of Burden perk and max out our inventory with all of the resources we need on us then get to work at full movement speed, as opposed to making multiple trips to and from storage chests, or worse still…plodding around at the overencumbered slow walking speed. There have already been multiple solutions put forward by other members which are far more practical and appealing than removing Beast of Burden. Some prime examples are:

Now regarding this…

I know right. For years now the forum has been inundated with complaints from PvE players about the Momentum/aka Beast of Burden perk. Would you care to indulge us and put together a lengthy summary of the issues it causes for PvE…? This should be good.

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No he did not. I unapologetically place the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of yourself and your little canine friend. So please refrain from your hypocritcal gaslighting of good members. :clown_face: But I’m sure that it was all just an innocent mistake and not a calculated act of sabotage right.

Oh how about that…we both must have missed the memo stating that ‘this is a PvP only thread’. Sorry bub, but if proposed changes will impact upon other modes too, you damn well better believe we are going to stand up and be counted and voice our opposition. Don’t like it go and find a nice cosy safe space.

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That hurts. I just smoke now.

So far I’m leaning towards the idea that @erjoh put forward of not being able to double jump while over encumbered.
Why does anyone need to double jump while over encumbered?
The 2 foundation idea is not enough as I’ve previously stated the majority of the map is not flat so this would have little impact on the issue.

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I say, if its going to be addressed, one shot naked colon of rocks should go in pvp in its entirety. Just nip it in the butt. If FC is going to commit resources, lets just be final and simple about it. No bug for implementation, no goalposts later to deal with when people come up with crazy new taint crush attacks, lets just have it gone.

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Or hang invisible above someones door just to have them booped when they exit.

Removing the perk would actually make bearer and camels more appealing. And also buff the war party perk.

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No you do not know how dedicated PvP players can be :smiley:
As long as it oneshots, which is the fastest way to get rid of a player, people will still try to abuse it. (See my other post above)

The oneshot is what needs to go. Damage over time when you stand on someone is a better solution gameplay wise. Does not require the achievement to be reworked nor beast of burden to be looked at and no restrictions regarding double jump.

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While these solutions would completely solve the issue of full heath/damage goomba stomp builds out in the field, I’m not sure they address the problems related to goomba stomp builds and siege - which is the kind of PvP behavior I think @SirDaveWolf is alluding to. Defending on a goomba stomp build is zero risk with maximum reward. Chain respawning and filling your pockets with rocks with a chance to one shot and scoop your attackers raid materials is just poor balance. Throwing your ass off your castle walls is more efficient than using siege cauldrons… SMH.

Now that’s not to say I think all defenders are or will utilize this playstyle, but at least before there were serious drawbacks to a goomba build. It is now the defacto gathering build for PVP and it is at least more common to see it employed in raid defense than it once was. Anything that discourages online raiding sours me and makes me more sympathetic to solutions that remove the oneshot in some way. CE has never been polished enough to facilitate oneshot PVP IMO.

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That’s a good point. I guess the solutions I mentioned wouldn’t solve the problem completely, just dial it back to where it was before everyone started saying how it’s a big problem and how everyone’s using this build.

That would be a great solution, too. As long as the last bit of damage you took is from that particular source, you can trigger the conditions for the achievement.

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This one just finished a drop bear stint of PvP.
First of all, officials seem less active than before, it may just be this one’s bad luck, but most of the players seemed happy to stay indoors, refresh their bubbles, and not really do much. Bah.

That said, there were a few opportunities to remind people to look up every once and awhile.
This one even put a few signs that read: Look Up in the area this one was an ambush predator in.

This one will defend the concept of dropping from a great height and landing on a foe to squish them…
But the great height is the issue. Double jump should not generate that great height.

If the tactic is limited to locations near ravines, precipices, and large structures, fine. But being able to inflict it from a starting equal footing is… No.
Just no.

Having mechanics that punish people for being sloppy and stupid is fine. So the drop crush is ok in this one’s opinion. Being able to trigger drop crush damage from such a short distance is, however, very objectionable to this one.

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I’m sure turning off Player damage on it would solve it. But they’d have make it work on NPC. Which would be funny way to handle a Purge. =3

It got same trophy on consoles too… sucked when co-op was busted.

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Not bad luck. It’s been pretty dismal for a while now. New players leave after being offlined and overpowered. Old players leave to hacks and bans. The players who stick through it try to deal with broken mechanics.

It’s so boring to do this but there’s a portion of players that don’t want to lose anything. Naked goomba make it worse. Once someone starts doing it no one wants to fight geared anymore.

I believe @erjoh was the one who said when fully encumbered you shouldn’t be able to double jump. This would help as well and makes sense

At this point pvp will benefit to any change that will remove the current goomba build. Every fight I’ve been in over the past few weeks has had at least one goomba build. It’s to the point where I see a naked double jumping while we are fighting others and I automatically become disheartened. What’s the point of putting gear on if someone with zero skill can come in a kill you with one shot…

@Mayra can we get some kind of hint that you guys are listening? This mechanic is rubbish

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