(Tips) (skills) which skills may have low benefit imo

I agree that, although a valiant effort, you can’t distil this topic down to this generic level.

I think part of the issue is that this guide is trying to provide advice on building a twink (i.e. IP min-maxing) rather than a generic leveling toon, where, for example, all attributes will be maxed eventually. But the language is pitched at a new player who doesn’t yet understand the skill system well enough to make their own informed decision on what to raise, and therefore really won’t be making a min-maxing twink.

Edit 19 May 2019: Original post has been updated, so some of my original criticism is no longer valid.

this is a great post and I don’t understand all of the hate. The only points where I disagree are with strength/stamina and brawling. Brawl is one of the few damage-scaling special attacks. Damage range of brawl is independent of the weapon you are using. Most froobs are going to want to raise strength or stamina or both for equipping armor. not everyone can use agi/sense or int/psy armor. Most good froob armor uses stamina or strength (carbonum, rhinoman, mantis, CAS, junkmetal, miy’s tank/ranged, lya’s sangi, desert nomad)

I would also add “initiatives” with an asterisk that they are almost never worth putting more than 25-50% into, just because they hardly do anything for the IP cost. Also nano init is an exception, anything past instant cast is a waste.

I have added Roshanna’s and Hungrygamer’s notes. Except for “weapon initiatives” which either speeds up your weapon or lets you go more deff slider -evades- , i consider that to be usefull.

the thing is that raising weapon speed via IP points in initiatives requires huge investments for very marginal speed increases. most of the time its not worth bringing it to max because of the way IP costs increase exponentially, whereas the benefit from initiatives is linear. It’s worth noting that most weapons people use these days are already 1/1, and that initiatives are less useful at increasing speed when you lower the agg/def slider anyways, and also, there is a lot of cheap equipment which can boost initiatives so you dont have to spend your IP there.

That’s one way to look at it, the other is that inits allow you to keep your attacks at 1/1 with a more defensive posture, which is essential for evade reliant professions.

Sure, it can be expensive for some professions, but for others (e.g. MA) it’s relatively cheap and IMHO a great IP investment.

Edit: All of this is why I don’t think a universal IP guide is possible…

Well thanks to all the feedback, we have at least something now :slight_smile:

Really there’s only the viral compiler that reliably boosts your initiatives and even then your statement is not particularly accurate either. On casting profs (doc’s, NT’s, etc) you will still want to raise your nano init. If you were referencing Flurry of Blows, that’s an active item that is not always up. While it is a great tool to use it can’t really be argued that it’s the same effect as being able to attack 1/1 while full D which every endgame profession should be able to do (evade prof or not). In case you didn’t know, full D generally reduces the amounts of times you can be crit and by proxy, the damage you take.

Additionally, PVE is one thing, but in PVP you may want to raise your inits to the point that you can almost ignore UBT or other init debuffs if you get hit with them. Soldiers do this pretty regularly as they generally don’t have enough NR to avoid getting by UBT in the first place.

As Auctoria said, it’s not really possible to create a generic and blanket guide to IP and while I applaud your efforts OP, I too agree that this thread does more harm than good and sets a lot of people up to some painful IP resets later on down the road.

Actually raising these skills may set people up for some painful ip resets, which is the reason i wrote it. The introduction explains the reason why this guide has the tone and harshness that it has (rarity of ip resets), and should not be taken as absolute.
However i understand that people have a tendency to simply not read the introduction, and try to understand where someone is comming from, or try to see things from the perspective of a new player. But i love you all and i do not mind these discussions at all, as confrontation is one of the best teachers. If anyone has a specific critisism and reasoning, i will think about it, however the “this is bad” is not very usefull to me. Although i have been interested in the natural psychological tendency of “splitting”, and the loss of specific effects.

How long have you played mate?

Again, I have read over what you wrote (as did everyone who has replied to this thread). We are all appreciative of the attempt to assist newer folks but in general, every veteran player who has played this game is telling you you’re flat wrong with 99% of your “guide”.

We have all stated that you’re doing more harm than good. it has nothing to do with not reading your introduction. Put simply:

THIS. IS. NOT. A. GOOD. GUIDE. FULL. STOP.

You can’t write a guide on how to raise skills (or not) and then put a disclaimer saying that this shouldn’t be taken seriously or as gospel. The first thing a new player would do seeing this is follow it to the T and end up hating the game, rerolling and/or quitting all together because they feel weak. The statement that I am not seeing things from your perspective is irrelevant because your perspective is demonstrably wrong. That’s like you saying that fire is cold and then pouting when I tell you you’re wrong. Look, if you want to gimp your self, that’s your prerogative, but don’t make something that others could follow when it’s clear to anyone who has played for any length of time that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Also, this is the most cringey crap I’ve read all day. In the words of Dr. Zoidberg “ITS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD”

TLDR: your “guide” gives overall false information that is not accurate at all. As such, there’s no reason to delve further into each individual piece of information that is wrong.

I have read your message i think i have managed to decode it. You seem to be offended by the this is gospel implication that the title of the thread may make people think. Even though the introduction adresses this issue, the inaccurate title is my fault. So i have changed the title to also represent the this is not gospel thing.

Since 2003, both froob and paid. And i get the impression that you seem very knowledgeable. So any veteran tips would be very much appreciated by the AO community. Here is a link to the thing which used to be named “guide” but is now also called “tips”.
((Tips) (Froob) Froob tips -still in progress-)

I think people are over-reacting. After scanning through the skills, most of them are right. You don’t want to be maxing concealment or duck exp most of the time.

The main thing I disagree with is the 3 abilities in the list (Str/Stam/Psychic), is this implying you should always max intelligence, agility and sense? Because that would be pretty ridiculous.

I think all abilities should be considered based upon whether you use any skills that are dependant on the ability.

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I’ll give you a piece of advice regarding guide writing and technique which I came to the hard way (and am still struggling with). Drop the lists in favor of a prose driven casual narrative/story style.

Psychic : Really useless in the beginning of the game. You can still raise your Nano pool a fair bit even without any psychic, since raising sense+intel+stamina will also let you raise Nano pool a bit.

To properly explain the Psychic Skill may require anywhere from three or six paragraphs of text alone, plus supporting examples and screenshots. For example; progression server players may want to use Jobe ADDALLDEF clusters at level 60 or 70- which is possible if the Jobe cluster implant is precisely QL100. And not only is it possible to do so, it may be the best choice for a progression server newbie. The catch being? Some Jobe imps require a fairly high Psychic skill to install depending on the cluster they’re paired with. There are many way to build a game character. One doesn’t need to be a veteran or credit rich to engage in increasing the performance of a game character. Newbies are only newbies until they are more fully informed - even if that information is limited to a few brief sentences/ descriptions

More in a bit. Hold your response until i’m finished!!

Carloss2’s comment may have been harsh and undiplomatic; he’s been creating guides and you’ll benifit from a rethink on how you are presenting information. Just take you’r lumps, reformat and try again.

Sorry but this is not a good guide for froobs. Imagine the MA that have no points in Brawl… the Enfo that have no points in stamina… the list goes on and on… I dont like to sound negative, but sadly, I dont think it’s possible to make a guide like this

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comments on this thread show most players lack game knowledge. Thanks for making the guide, poisonorochi. It’s unfortunate that most people are incapable of weighing cost vs effect.

The other thing people are misunderstanding: This is a guide to low-benefit IP sinks and how to avoid them. There is no skill that is 100% useless in anarchy online (except maybe riposte or adventuring), but certain IP sinks are just not worth prioritizing.

  • I have added more specific information about the usefulness of certain abilities as Mongoose135 said.
  • Elaborated on psychic in particular as Higain said.
  • Added the usefulness of brawl to people using MA like Gimpeline said.
  • Added comment about the list being designed for lower level ip problems like hungrygamer said.
  • sort of agree with hungrygamer although i also think Caloss2 has been very helpfull in making user friendly guides for the AO community, and gets a big hug nonetheless.
  • Could use some more tips/feedback/hate on the main guide though, ((Tips) (Froob) Froob tips -still in progress-)
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The guide is vastly better now than were it started back in March.

Yea i do have a tendency to generalize and think in absolutes, with little regard for exeptions. And have bit of trouble explaining my underlying thought process, but i have now wrote more specifically about “abilities” and in what exact situations they are worth raising.

All credit to you @PoisonOrochi for taking on feedback and making changes to improve the original post.

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Like Caloss2 said :slight_smile: :+1: Sorry haven’t got time to answer for your last mention :slight_smile: And it seems others have said good points alrdy :slight_smile: