TSW combat optional

There’s zero proof of any of these statements. Plenty of other games user reticle targeting, not just ESO - the Action RPG is based around the reticle targeting system. There’s no guarantee that bringing back tab targeting would bring any players back to the franchise. It’d be unlikely to provide a return on the amount of development time required to rework everything for non-reticle gameplay (you couldn’t just port it over from TSW sadly).
There would be no guarantee that any of the TSW die hards would be prepared to switch without further changes (like the reintroduction of the massively bloated ability wheel). Balancing it so that there was any benefit to using the harder reticle mode would be a pain - why bother with something that’s harder to use when you could just tab target and shoot your target without having to worry which direction you’re looking in?

It’s the kind of idea that requires a lot of development time to get right, and SWL just doesn’t have the population that would justify that kind of investment. Even if you could guarantee that all the TSW population would move over, it still wouldn’t justify the cost involved. It’s one of those ideas that would be nice for players, but it’d never be approved by the people holding the purse strings.

I didn’t have a problem with tab targeting when I started TSW with blade (I don’t think it was used with blade-been too long), but now that I use Blood/Ele, it kills me a lot because I’m not quick enough at switching targets. That’s why I hate it lol. I do know a lot of people that want it back though.

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You compare games that were first designed for console and later migrated to PC. TSW and especially this branch are not. SWL would like to serve all the kids (console generation) and that is all. For PC players it doesn’t matter (almost) at all. That is what I complain about here. To open up for different platforms. Let’s see if the investors like it. Doesn’t look like it would generate more players just by “balancing” alone. Doubt that strongly.

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Again, a statement with zero evidence attached.

The “Action RPG” genre is pretty much all based around the idea that where your character is looking is the direction where they shoot. The idea is that it creates a style of gameplay which feels more connected to the player’s movement, in theory increasing the excitement level for the player. Tab targeting is easier because there’s no skill involved in where you point your character. You can spin the camera so that you don’t even have the target on your screen, but all of your attacks will still hit it. That makes it much simpler for the player, and reduces the difficulty, but also makes combat feel much less responsive and alive.

The MMO genre is mostly moving away from tab targeting, because most people find the combat systems less fun. Some are working to incorporate both (like Ashes of Creation,) but that’s normally being done in a way where some things are tab targeted and others use reticle targeting. It needs to be done early on in development though, because getting combat to feel exciting is a major part of the game design. It’s not necessarily about whether or not a game can be ported cross platform, it’s more about making combat that feels fun and engaging.

TSW’s combat was one of the biggest and most frequent complaints, where it felt unconnected and clunky. Taking SWL back to that would take a lot of time and effort, for something which would be regarded as a big step backwards.

The players were overwhelmed with the skills but not turned away from the combat system.This can only be claimed by players who play SWL permanently and do not want any changes. It doesn’t matter what makes an RPG game, it’s important what SWL does. And this game is blind to one eye.

They 100% don’t care in the slightest lol

I know the stated intent was “make combat more connected” but all the actual changes they made just made me feel less in control of my character. If I’m standing facing a group of enemies and I hit the button to attack them with my hammer… nothing happens. It pops up “target out of range” cause the reticle chose an enemy 10m away instead of one I can hit. At least with tab targetting you can see the green circle on your target and expect whether your attack will work.

The fancier ability animations just feel slow to me. There are a lot of “instant” basic attacks that take more than half a gcd before you even see your player deal damage. If there’s any indication at all that they attacked; if I’m using several pistol or rifle basics I quickly lose track of when I need to press the button cause the character just stands there trying to build suspense or something.

Obviously tab targetting makes combat easier on an absolute level, but TSW compensated for that by making bosses more intricate. For example the Hell Fallen final boss where you had 3 targets doing coordinated attacks and you had to switch between them to interrupt them all. It’s just not possible without target locking so you can find the next one and focus on them until they do the attack.

I’d agree with Funcom that having your main attacks on mouse buttons makes the combat less clunky, the trouble is reticle is a half measure and the way it’s implemented has made the rest of the game way more clunky. Someone mentioned not being able to use A+D to turn with tsw’s reticle… they are only half fixed in SWL, if you use any type of mounted sprint, they stop working again. If you’re out of reticle mode you can’t turn at all. Etc. Also it only extends until you run out of mouse attacks, once you’re trying to use a basic and move out of enemy attacks at the same time, you’re back into the same clunky problems as tsw.

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If you are looking at an enemy over 10m away, why would the game know that you want to hit a different target? It’s not the reticle’s fault, that’s down to the player. The time when it is about the reticle is when you’re trying to prioritise targeting a big monster but the small mob that’s closer to you gets in the way instead.

You don’t need to focus on them till they do their cast though. If you’ve got the UI set up to show cast bars above enemy targets heads then you can see when stuff is being cast and can use an aoe interrupt. I do it a lot on HE5, where you can stop the casts of Drink Deep, Chirugy and Rot Iron. I don’t need to switch from my main target to use a gadget or an ability to interrupt them all. HF had all kinds of other problems as well, like Ascendant randomly running off mid fight, which I think would have more to do with why the elite versions were never made.
If you look at how “intricate” the fights are, the existing elites are all just as complex as when we had tab targeting. With the tier 4 mechanics coming in on test, they’re going to be more complicated.

Being able to move and use abilities is about the player. Most people work out how to set up their keys so that they can comfortably move and still press other buttons without having to stop. That’s probably why the default keys are all so close to WASD.

I mentioned that, and the mount thing is true. I can use A and D buttons to turn mounts in TSW (I don’t know about when using T Target, though). Why would they remove that? It’s why I don’t use mounts in SWL.

Initially when SWL was released, there was no keyboard turning at all. A and D instead are used for sidestep, freeing up Q & E. I think you can still turn mounts using the arrows on the keyboard now though.

Keyboard turning with reticle targeting is bad under most circumstances, just because it’s so much harder to make the minute adjustments so that you’re actually pointing at the right target. It was only after some people complained that the arrow keys were brought in to give the option.

I’m surprised you’ve never encountered this issue… if your reticle is pointing at multiple enemies it’s able to target the farther one, even if the player can’t see that one because the closer one’s obscuring it. Very common on the NYR Lurker because it has an enormous hitbox so anywhere in that hemisphere is “pointing at the lurker”. But regardless if it’s selecting the closer target instead of the farther, or the farther instead of the closer, target locking prevents the issue. And I am happy to call it a usability issue if there’s an enemy in range of my hammer, my reticle is pointing at it, and the game is not letting me attack it. Even if there’s a workaround where I look straight down or something.

I suppose it’s a quirk of mine but I much prefer using one hand at a time to do things, if I can move my character around entirely with my left hand (wasd + qe) then I do that. Or I use right hand only, set autosprint and then mouse steer. SWL’s turning sensitivity on keys is so low that it’s common for me to strafe opposite to where I want to turn so I can make sharp corners, so I’ll go from WE forward turning to AWE diagonally forward back to WE forward turning.

I think mounts will turn with sidestep keys if you’re standing still, but not if you’re moving forward? and turning keys never work? It’s something so unplayable for me that I just took mounts out of consideration and only use walking sprints.

If you can find out how, let me know. I use my keys to turn in TSW and SWL, and I don’t use mounts in SWL because I can only turn it with the mouse.

Oh, are you saying you can turn with arrows but not A and D?

Just checked. While you can turn with the arrow keys (or whatever you bind it to) with non mount sprints, as soon as it is a mount, for whatever reason you can’t turn the camera anymore. You can strafe with either type of sprint.

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Yup, you can turn on the spot using the arrow keys, but once you’re moving (forwards or backwards) the turn no longer works. :weary:

I also tried it with autorun, just in case it was about the number of keyboard inputs, but no luck. :confused:

You can only jump on mounts whilst moving forwards as well. You can be strafing and moving forwards, but if you’re just strafing then no luck. :frowning: Hoverboards let you kind jump on the spot, but other mounts will just sit there. :frowning_face:

I vaguely recall Nirvelle saying something about mounts working very differently to sprint skins, which is why we can’t use them in dungeons. :thinking: It’s a very vague recollection though!

@AWOL that’s what I mean when I say you can’t turn. I need to be able to turn while moving. It’s not like that in TSW. I don’t use a mouse to control my character at all, so I just don’t use mounts.

You can also use A and D to turn on the spot. I thought you had found a way to turn while moving.

Is there any reason why you don’t use a mouse?

I just like to move with ASWD and used my keybad for abilities. Hands on keyboard.

Speaking of… What does this mean? I was looking around in my settings.

image

“Mouse mode overlay”

Never mind. It just removes this and the dark filter it puts over the screen when you press alt (mouse mode).

image

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