And, as @kana71 asked, it might be quite nice if @Dinner_for_wolves or @Pipinghot could indicate who they believe has been “insulting” or “hurling around death threats”. I am aware that these things happen, but they don’t appear to be happening in this thread, so it raises a question of why the attempts at Reductio Ad Hitlerum have been aimed at this thread in particular?
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I understand your point and I mostly agree with you. Perhaps my faith in the concept of a rational fanbase has been tainted by to much of the same amplification of hate across the spectrum of video games and movies over the last decade that I too am now speculating on people’s unwillingness to change their ways regardles of positive interactions by the devs. The “people suck” remark was more directed towards those that feel the need to personally attack those that may have no choice, or for all the reasons you listed above, made their decisions based on any one of them. I 100% agree that lack of communication is definately the root of this problem. That being said, no matter how much you engage with your customers there’s always going to be people who are completely and utterly unsatisfied, and willing to throw hate around like a frisbee.
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Calling devs incompetents is not an insult when the devs are incompetents in their bug infested updates, is a fact.
hey, i know that being a dev is hard, but thats no reason or excuse to destroy things that worked for no apparent reason. and i say no apparent reason because they failed pretty badly in communicate the motivation behind these changes, and even when they do, im not convinced if i agree with those motivations.
For example, when they announced the “living thralls” or whatever bs that was. like… why?. who asked for this ? did they played soulsmask and suddenly feel inspired to do so so they decided to waste massive amounts of dev time in a COSMETIC FEATURE ? . that sure, i guess if it worked its fine, but look all the problems it brings in the meantime as we are still dealing with both longtime and new game breaking bugs.
or another example i still want to know why they reworked the stamina system turning pvp meta into a non-stop rolling clown fiesta where is almost impossible to kill 1 person even in group because you are not punished for mismanaging your stamina as before.
as for death threats i am not even sure what you are even talking about, who was sending threats? xD. thats psycopath behavior right there.
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I already stated that my post was in response to another comment and was in no way indicative of OP’s opinions on the state of the game. I was simply adding my two cents on the topic of making presumptions without information, or experience in the field.
Yeah but the dye bench isn’t one of them. This is flat up everyone having a fit because they are forcing people to dye their armor at the dye bench station and because the bench is 2X3, it’s a pain point.
HOWEVER I don’t see any difference between that and the economy update that had us all redesign our bases because of the large benches.
It gets even weirder when these same people were not up in arms when fish traps were regulated and made the large well pointless.
As someone that’s been with the changes throughout the years, the outrage times are just weird. The game has changed and not just during the Ages but throughout CE’s existence. Fundamental changes to how certain things work.
-Removal of content completely (Witch Doctor) to make room for the shiny new toy (zombies) even though it didn’t affect them functionally.
-Moving crafting to oversized benches to gain benefits/functions
-Regulating other “benches” due to the amount of overuse players were doing (fish traps) and destroying other placeable functionality (large well).
There are probably tons more of creative changes that served no apparent purpose. But does it truly detract from the game in general or it is just your specific game? This is where I mostly check myself before going all apesheet over things. If it can function and I can learn the new way and doesn’t detract from other parts of the game, I’m ussually good with it.
Some of the more controvesial changes I was good with.
Inventory? Yeah after they did that change I liked it better than what I was doing because I wasn’t going to waste me time playing OCD and destacking the precise amounts. Just not doing it. Giving me a quick half cut definitely improved my game play.
Dye bench? Yeah I’m sorry I don’t see this as remotely a deal breaker. The only complaint I see having significant merit in this is that level 25 seems a bit high and should be lowered to a more reasonable 15 to match fire bowl knowledge.
Potion of Midnight? I don’t even understand why this is an issue. All dungeons should have a single access point on the map and not be thought of as an acid trip.
-The follower wheel? I’m console so I am ignorant to the issue being described I’ll let you PC folks tell me its a big deal.
-The auto focus on Mouse direction…same thing. I did notice something happened but couldn’t put my figure on it on the controller side. I will tell you from my perspective as an old fart PC gamer of yesteryear, that was truly a boneheaded change.
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I think they didn’t go far enough on this one. The Potion of Midnight can still be used as a bit of fast travel (in PVE as well as PVP) that its not really meant for. I think it should just put a short buff on the character that gives you enough time to talk to the Werehyena and then if you have this buff you get the option to go to the Grove.
I personally haven’t had any issues with this. And I do like that I can visually see what mode my followers are in instead of second guessing myself. The stop command has been improved and renamed ‘Flee’. Before the thrall would stop their agro for a second but still stand next to a foe and simply reagro, basically not doing anything. The flee command has them stop, and regroup making them actually run out of danger if used properly.
This is another one they need to go further with. My biggest issue with the dye bench is that its only functionality is to create dyes and dye armor in the current state. If we’re going to use a bench, I would like for dye profiles to be something we can save to use multiple times. I’d also like the ability to see how dyes look on a piece of armor on a different gender to myself. And finally I would like to see the removal of individual dyes and replaced with just general dye reagents so we don’t need 80+ recipes and items to dye our stuff, instead you use reagents and then pick a color from a list, or make a new one using sliders.
This way with some simple materials you can dye an entire army’s worth of gear in quick succession, dye the colors you want (meaning you can match colors even if the tints are off based on base material of the item), and can see exactly what everything is going to have.
Now with that said, I’ve also played Funcom games since 2008, including Age of Conan, as well as a bit with Secret World and obviously the thousands of hours in Conan Exiles, as well as some of my other contributions that the devs and community team are already aware of. And while some of the stuff in the last year have been rough (I do agree that bugs need to be worked out and the sooner the better), not every change listed here in the thread and elsewhere are universally considered bad.
The one’s I listed as coming up short also detail my suggestions to take them a bit further and what I consider a positive direction. It may not be in line with what the OP likes, but that’s fine, as differing opinions are okay and valid.
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Even though I try to keep up, quite often I don’t get the notifications I should. It really shouldn’t take this much effort to keep up with game changes.
Don’t want me to speculator don’t give me the reason or room to need to.
No that is a judgement call on your part.
It wasn’t the change to the bench as much as the change to how armor is dyed. this one piece at a time 
I’ve suggested tiered benches like other benches. But I’m not the one funcom gets ideas from.
Yes because the UVzones; texture mapping, are different, funcom 
I actually was a a texture artist, and I’ve had to remap so much content 
Not Conan, although I wish I could.
I’d like to see the dying bench linked to the armor display dummy. Be nice to be able to dye a full set. But don’t think I want funcom to try it.
I explained this in detail a number of times back when it happened, but here, I’ll run you through it quickly again.
The jest of it is that: This was not an intended change towards players, but a side-effect of them trying to prevent NPCs from doing instant snap 180 rotations mid-combat. It’s probably also why it wasn’t in any patch-notes and you can’t find it. They simply didn’t realize the effect it has on player characters, especially since most of the designers playtest with controllers where this specific change wasn’t that prominent. (some of the others were though)
But basically, the change did not occur in the player characters class… but rather the root class from which both NPC and player characters are derived from and given that they were tweaking NPC combat rotations in that patch, it’s pretty obvious it was aimed at them. So for players this was more of a bug that slipped through rather than a feature… probably the reason for the “ghetto-rigged toggle” (I like that expression 
)
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Yeah, it’s no mystery why the players are having a fit, but we’re not speculating about that. The speculation we’re talking about is about the devs’ motives.
Why was the change made?
Was it just to give the Dyer’s Bench a reason to exist? Because if that’s the case, there are many better ways to do that than taking away a feature with better UX so you can force your players to use the bench. Here’s an example of how it could’ve been done better:
If it wasn’t just to give people a reason to use the bench, then what motivated the change?
I see a big difference. The economy update changed the way you get the bonuses for your gear. It replaced the slot-machine mechanics of hunting for that one specific T4 that spawns once in a blue moon with the choice of a bench and a hunt for a T4 specialization.
That was a fundamental paradigm shift that removed a source of frustration (for many) and offered a different way to play that included a tradeoff (space vs bonuses).
The Dyer’s Bench change didn’t do anything remotely similar. It simply introduced a new source of frustration.
I’ve had to rewrite this paragraph several times, but I can’t find a way to say it nicer than this: I sincerely doubt that you went digging through the forums and are basing this claim on something substantial. The amount of work that would go into that is staggering.
I’m sure we both could dig up some random user who complained about the Dyer’s Bench and go through their posting history and point out that they didn’t complain about a similar change in the past. But does that really make you confident enough to dismiss the majority of complains as mere fickleness?
The way I remember, when they made it so you can’t place fish traps inside a large well anymore, a lot of us were displeased by that and came to the forums to say so. Maybe we weren’t as strident as we are with the latest changes, but constant fuсkups will eventually erode everyone’s patience and goodwill.
Maybe that’s a console thing? PC had a quick half cut all the time.
A turd in my clam chowder is a deal breaker. A single pea in it makes me ask why it’s there, but I won’t care much. Somewhere in between those extremes is a weird hypothetical restaurant that has all kinds of silverware except spoons, but they have soups on the menu, so if you’re gonna eat one you better bring your own spoon.
In other words, the Dyer’s Bench might not be a “deal breaker”, but forcing a change like this on people deserves an explanation. And if that explanation is “because otherwise Dyer’s Bench is pointless”, then people are right to be upset about it.
I’m willing to bet you do understand why it’s an issue, you just don’t agree with people who complain about it
Seriously, it really is that simple: people liked being able to go do that dungeon without hiking or riding to its entrance.
Personally, I’m not bent out of shape because of that change. I liked the old Potion of Midnight because it was something different, a novel way to get into a dungeon, but I don’t mind the trek to the entrance.
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Regarding inventory management, I agree that the filter options in the menus are buggy. But I think the filter options are VERY IMPORTANT (especially for those who play on console: as long as, well, they work properly).
I even think there could be more filter options (without bugs, of course).
Filtering is life: finding the things you really want, faster.
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This one is a bit ridiculous actually… there was a second reason… and I believe that was the driving force behind it, the rest of it is just an excuse…
So the reason was… that they replaced the UI… and they wanted this new UI to have a standardized and fixed layout that always looks the same… so… the Dye button, that only appears on armor and no other item… - which even on the old UI sometimes only appeared under “more” - became the ugly ginger child they sent to the basement…
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Yeah, the UI changes are also poorly explained. Like I said on more than one occasion, I understand needing to change the underlying implementation of something that is user-facing, but it really should be done with care.
The bugs they introduced with the UI revamp were not pretty. And if the Dyer’s Bench was part of those changes, that’s just adding insult to injury. They should’ve just given the bench 5 slots and the same dyeing UI that we used to have in our inventory.
And yeah, I know that the word “just” in that sentence is carrying a lot of weight; for all I know, it might be really complicated to do with the codebase they have, but that’s not the players’ problem. They should’ve figured it out and then figured it into their budget.
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This! This is my largest issue right now and I can’t stress the amount of disappointment that is going on in my own head. The amount of time we had to wait for the next age and the lack of anything fresh in the game but we were promised better quality of updates and that the time was going to be spent to ensure this happens…to get limiting bugs on all of the new items introduced and we can not enjoy said content. SMH. This is what kills things for me more than anything else.
All creative changes I can deal with. The complete failure even when provided the ample time to get it right…I’m starting to view the game like I view official PVP now.
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Hmm this is an interesting idea. An immersive preview so to speak. I don’t remember which mod it was that did this, maybe fashionist. But back when you had thralls on work benches there was this thing where you had these armor dummies that would act like templates. So you had a display room of different looks. You named them so they were easy to find. When you interacted with a specific bench you could tell it to make all Alchemists in your base apply that template or all Entertainers, or so on.
Since our crafting thralls are placed now and have armor, we can organically equip them with regular dyed armor.
The problem of course is if you have a full set of crafters and a few squads of fighters and archers. Dyeing everything is a chore. I think we can all agree on that.
But how I would like to see the dyeing bench work is you can save a template somehow, and then just have a simplified reagent used as a material cost to dye armor. But you can use this method to quickly dye dozens of armor sets and you could dye entire sets at a time. You load in the armor click dye from template or whatever the button is, and it poofs you out a full set of dyed armor.
Could probably use dummies to represent dye channel templates. And thus you would be able to see even before you click on the bench what the armor will look like.
This gives the Dye Bench a better use case a reason to justify its use and existence. And I like that your idea makes the armor dummies actually have a use other than being just deco.
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I think you’ve misinterpreted my post. If you re-read it you’ll see that the context of my reply was not to support any specific claims of insults or threats, what I was doing was pointing out that negative behavior towards devs is nothing new.
The entire context of my replay was…
“Speculating on game dev decisions is all the rage now.”
I was making a general observation disputing the “now” part of his post, he will have to answer which specific insults or threats he was talking about.
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But the change occured after sorcery brought you transportary stones that also let you teleport out of your base. So I don’t understand so much why saying major pvp consequences when you still can teleport out and this time to places much more secure than a public dungeon.
So … you know … this told me maybe you don’t really know what you are complaining about. 
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I was generalizing the current climate as a whole. There was no one specific incident contained in the original topic. I wasn’t even responding to the OP. I was responding to another comment about making presumptions based on little to no knowledge of the industry, but my comment was taken personally. I apologized for this already. @CodeMage presented a different p.o.v. that I pondered on, and found that I too was making presumptions about how greater levels of communication would, or would not effect playerbase dissatisfaction, and the unwarented vitriol that often comes with it said dissatisfaction. That is all.
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The concept of “quality” and “community preference” is not as people like to make it to be. In the first place there is the universally blatant and deceptive “assertion” of “that is what the playerbase want” by people who dont know, or dont really reflect what the playerbase is.
First of all, you can know by the numbers that most Conan Exiles do not play on servers, and do not play with more than coop. That because you can count the number of players as Conan Exiles is offered only through marketplaces which can be queried for numbers. Contrary to WoW for example which cant.
Then you have “rational” notion that something is bad because you think it is bad. Nothing is done and it is bad “absolutely” and done just because the people on the game development think it should be done. Even if you believe that with all certainty.
And then, there is the comparison to find things that “make no difference”.
If you know various famous games, and make a comparison. FFXIV is a game played by at least double the players of Conan Exiles anywhere they both are offered. However most players play it directly from SE account, which sums up a total of around 10 times more players than Conan Exiles could ever boast.
FFXIV’s is also one of the WORSE inventory system to manage in all games that have them. You can multiselect, you cant transfer inventory in bulk, you are limited by retainers, which is a limited free service and limited paid extension service, along with having a lot of other things to have more inventory spaces. You are not allowed to directly interact with alt characters, and you cannot trade in a lot of ways. Despite the “hype” for housing, from all games that have a building or decorating system, FFXIV has one of the worse. You need to put and confirm items, individually move OR rotate them as an individual action you have to finish.
And someone might say: Ok, but FFXIV is an mmorpg, it has this, that, that other thing and so on, so we can stand a crappy inventory system.
That is exactly my point. The only reason people complain a lot about many things in Conan Exiles is because those are the only things you have. At the same token, people are widely unsure what they want as a “playerbase”, because everyone has their “own take” on what Conan Exiles should be.
The construction hammer is a good example.
“Cant pre build and share things”, well, that might be by design I guess.
“Takes away the freedom for people to prepare building”. That I agree is bad, not as in “before was better”, just as in “it could have been done better”.
If you could set a “favorite list” from which you could quickly change, building would not be more cumbersome now that it was before. I can respect the idea that putting a server in which anyone in that server can use what the server owner has bought is “bad” for business, but honestly, I dont think it is.
I buy everything almost from the optional content. If a server were to be made that would work well (server gameplay is atrocious, I dont know how people stand to the many problems in playing in a server), I would even buy more things for the people who goes there to use if they could. So would a lot of people who presently use mods for that.
So you cant lend your Aesir pieces ? you install that mod which has wooden building sets, it works fine, and allow people to allow anyone in the server to use it. I would bet sales of sets would be bigger if server owners could buy things for people to use in their servers.
I dont really think people buy stuff from the bazaar in a rate that would make it be otherwise.
Plus, if people go to a server they can play “smoothly” and they see stuff they like from the store, they might buy it for them in their private game, effectivelly using the server sharing of stuff as advertisement for the “private buyer”.
But all that, and added to the FFXIV argument, all hinges in that the core game interest work. That core game interest being the SANDBOX SURVIVAL GAME which Conan Exiles was meant to be and the only genre it is good it. Changing it will only be a disservice, as Conan Exiles cannot hope to compete outside that genre.
So the main problem, IMO, is not the bad “peripheral things” that it does this or that way and they work. The problem is that they become a serious problems for being built over aspects of the core game systems that do not work well.
This. I may not RP but I love staging. So themed crafters clothes, khitan for my main base. But dying armor piece by piece for multiple sets is rather daunting.
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First I would like to thank @AndersonKain and @Cauthey. As I do not go around exploiting the game, and I do not play on officials, I was honestly not aware of this issue. I truly appreciate the two of you explaining this and although I do not expect Funcom to go into as much detail as the two of you did a simple line added to the patch notes such as
“This change was made to help correct an exploit we are aware of” would have gone a HUGE was towards helping those people who do not play on these specific servers to understand that these changes actually DID HAVE A PURPOSE. Which is what this entire thread is asking for, to discover what the purpose of these seemingly random and often nonsensical changes are for. Thank you both for shedding the light onto this specific change, somthing that Fumcon should have done but at least the two of you were awesome enough to do so. 
I believe that you may in fact be correct on this. However, they could have easily improved the support for controllers (as it already existed) while NOT completely shafting the controls for keyboard and mouse users. Both things existed previously, both things could still exist now. There was no legitimate reason to make one objectively inferior in order to make one subjectively better. That, frankly, is not something that I can forgive.
The two things are, in my opinion, not exactly tied together. Yes they happened in the same update but so did the main culprit, again in my opinion. That being the BLB and FLS. With the introduction of the BLB they wanted to make a system where you could not simply “give” items you purchase to other people who did not purchase said items thus I believe they retroactively implemented that mentality to become applicable to the building system they were in the middle of overhauling as well. Hence it was not a change cause by the addition of the building hammer, it was a change added to the building hammer cause by the change created by the BLB (again, this is purly my opinion as we will truly never know).
Thank you for this. This is a very reasonable way of looking at things. I do not want to sit here and claim “they did this for reason X” or they did this for reason Y". I am only asking for them to give us, their fans and players some reasons behind why these changes are being made. Just some simple communication on their end is all I ask for as it will go a long way to making things far easier for everyone to understand WHY things are being done, why they are moving in the direction they are moving. Maybe all of these little changes are part of a much larger change coming down the line, and they need to impliment these changes first in order for the big change to come into fruition. Who know? Not us, but if they simply say something then we may be willing to say “OH! OK so that is why. Alright, well hopefully this new system will be amazing and worth it in the end.”
I appreciate it @Xevyr, I clearly missed your previous explanations. So, in other words, they could have made the changes to NPC but instead made it to the “master class” that controls both NPC’s and Player Characters? That is a pretty significant oversight and one that should have been noticed via quality control…
But again, they could have restored the main file back and then worked on the correct file rather than the slap job “patch work” “fix” that they gave us since that doesn’t exactly work (and it is turned off by default so they don’t even want you to use it which makes me believe that their “bug” was intentional).
So they wanted to change the UI, expect they told everyone that the reason was to “justify the size of the bench”. But what about the UI requires gatekeeping dyes behind a level lock that never previously existed? Or denying the ability to use the dyes you find as loot on the fly as you always had been previously? These are massive changes that heavily restrict players. And their excuse “to justify the size of the bench” is just completely insulting. If that was their reason, MAKE THE BLOODY THING SMALLER FFS! However, if it actually was due to the UI change than the reason they gave to the community was a flat out lie. So either it was just an insulting nonsensical reason or it was a lie. Either way, not cool.
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