Whirlwind Blades + Havoc and Malice nerf seems too harsh

@hugo Can you give reason as to why these weapons were nerfed, as well as the serpent man weapons?

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The balance are in values, the way to acquire said weapon differs from that, that I agree must be figured out, now you can’t deny that numbers must be balanced in order to have a fair game for everyone.

Also, going to UC to farm repair kits are not that hard while you still farm weapons altogether in the same place. To craft weapons and repair them at the bench you gotta go after the mats, I don’t see a big deal here.

Just make afew of the items and add a kit to them to keep the old damage output befor the patch hits.

Where this weapon to OP? I didnt even see that many people using it…

To clarify on this change, both weapons have a much longer reach than daggers so they severely outclassed any other dagger with their previous damage values.

Even with the new values, which are on par with what daggers are, their range alone makes them valuable within their category.

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Proof that Whirlwind Blades have a much longer reach:

Watch as I struggle to hit this creature with a small hitbox with normal daggers, then when I pull out the Whirlwind Blades, I fair… well… pretty much the same, because their reach is still just as terrible.

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Not a very much reliable test, the heavy move sets from daggers (that whirl blades and havko/malice use) are well known from their arc to have problems hitting the ground. The problem here is the angle, not the range, do this test again with light attacks and the range will play a difference.

Oh yes, light attacks worked much better.

Most of the hits arent even aimed directly the target, you seem to hitting the air a bit above, I have 0 problems hitting short targets with ligh dagger attacks. Is this testlive? I havent tested daggers there yet, maybe something changed.

Once I get home I’ll test my self and would post a video showing it, but I can’t upload videos in here, just pics and gif that always get small when i post them here.

Maybe I need permission from a CM.

I don’t agree that the increased reach is balanced with how low the damage is now, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to change, so I guess that’s it.

I run my own server and I can fix it with mods, so ultimately this doesn’t actually affect me personally, but it’s unfortunate for those who can’t.

This is actually a very good thing that you bring this issue back to the table. As a dagger lover It has Always bothered me that daggers are so unefficient at hiting small creatures. i really hope someone of the Community mangers brings this back to the discussion in order to increase the hitbox of "small creatures"

So thanks to you Tephra and also to the gentle soul who will move the message forwards :smiley:

Use a bigger target

You seem to be missing the point.

Thanks for giving us some explanation. Whether we agree with it or not, it is very helpful and constructive to at least know some of the mindset behind the change.

And on that note I still disagree with the nerf. I will take the higher damage daggers over those two nerfed weapons any day now, which drastically disincentives even trying to get them in the first place. Recipes and weaps that are of chance to get and require difficulty in maintaining (repair kits by luck of the drop and time to farm), SHOULD be rewarding, and by that, not less than or even on par with weaps that are easier to get and maintain (IMHO).

With PvP mechanics being what they are, reach on daggers really doesn’t mean squat since we’re just going to trade blows. If you get close enough to me to use those daggers with reach, I WILL hit you, and likely with a weapon that does more damage.

Anyways, rant over. Again, I really appreciate the response to the original question (why). I know you guys have to deal with a lot of criticism on these forums and oft are not rewarded for it. Thank you for all you do to help keep this game great.

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Legendaries should be better than normal weapons. Hence why they are called Legendaries.

Funcom and many players see that different :confused:

Range should not be discounted in balancing. A weapon equal to others within a class but with one superior stat (range in this example) is unbalanced, so for balance purposes it is fitting to have trade offs (such as superior range, lesser damage or such); but finding the “sweet spot” for balance is the trick. The change discussed here could well be an over adjustment (offhand it looks like it to me, but then I tend to favour potential max damage over range -within reason :stuck_out_tongue: ).

On a gut level I do hate to see a favourite (and probably over-powered, within its class) weapon “nerfed” when I have been enjoying its use… Even if I might understand the balancing attempt (which in general I support).

edit to add, I probably would have slowed these weapons down for balance rather than reducing damage, seems more fitting that they might be slower but hit harder? But still would be reducing dps in effect

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@Hugo so with this new damage and as they are no longer any better then say Star metal daggers as they have a greater reach as you say, will you also be making it so its easier to repair them as with no longer needing Legendary weapons kits also as seems a bit silly to farm kits when I can just go to my bench to fix other weapons that are now on par with these?

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No offense, but if you want balance Funcom should strip all Legendary Weapons from PVP. If not, then you will never have a level playing field. I suggest prior to dueling another player you both agree to use the exact same weapon, armor, and stats. This way the fight will be fair and BALANCED.

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I also wrote that some time… Just disable the legendary effects or change (Balance) them for PvP only!

But what should PvE-C have then?

Because why should a monster complain about a 100% ap weapon…

Ok. I gotta take a break from this forum. Whirlwind blades were my favorite. I realize I am an accuracy player so I’ll still get my 30% added. Or has that been nerfed too?

We know this is now game of hammers and bows now.

Sure you have the flip back from the daggers. Which is what daggers are supposed to be. Agile weapons.

I know the dodge roll was reduced. I get it was to reduced to stop disengaging. But daggers always had the backflip due to the fast attack but also to get you out of range of enemies and players using a heavier weapon with superior range. Dagger users should not be penalized because they use daggers.

Hammers Will be meta for a long time to come