State of private servers AGAIN and why its bad for community and game population growth

These.

No, people lie. Or misinterpret. Especially when they have an incentive to do so. Like the incentive of justifying their failure.

From that chart, take every month that isn’t part of a spike and compare it with the same month of the previous year. See what that tells you and if you know how to interpret it.

The “nowadays” you’re looking at is the peak number of players for the last 24 hours. You’re comparing that to a figure you got from one of the numbers indicating the peak for the whole month, although you didn’t specify which month.

Sure, buddy. Everyone is wrong but you. That’s the road to success right there. It’s how you’re going to single-handedly make your server popular and save this game from certain demise.

I’m done wasting time on this topic.

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Uh…I run a vanilla server with no cash shop. The only exception is 2x harvesting and a slight xp boost for killing, but yeah, otherwise vanilla AF. Just a matter if youre willing to risk 24/7 PvP.

I’ve been informed that the thing gutting my population counts is actually the fact I run vanilla. I accept that and dont sweat it. I offer a service and if people want it, great. If not, and its because a competitor offers additional services or additions to their product, then its on me to either beat their offering or STFU if I’m not willing to budge on my offering.

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2018 was probably Conan Exiles’ worst year. Steam Charts show 2017, but that was early access so not very many had really pulled the trigger and the game was literally unfinished. But I remember some discussions with people I played with, fellow server admins, and just in general… not many thought the game would continue to see development as late into 2019 as it did. Much less to now.

The game has been steadily growing. Q4 2022 was exceptionally good and we’ve continued to see a larger playerbase than before after the newness of Age of Sorcery wore off. Game is doing fine, and like you’ve said, that’s not really the point of your original post.

So for now, let’s not worry about the numbers. At the end of the day, the numbers don’t really matter. The issue you have is you want to play on or run a server with vanilla settings and you either need players or a server with players and no cash shop to make that work.

First of all, let’s clarify what you mean by cash shop. I’m seeing quite a few posters saying they’ve never saw one before. I took your definition of a cash shop as being a place for people to buy donation packages with the higher the donation the higher the tier of rewards or incentives being offered.

I’m guessing when people hear cash shop, they think of a literal list of things with a cost attached that they can purchase through an interface or through discord. Like maybe a few stacks of Hardened Brings, Shaped Wood, and Steel Reinforcements for x amount of dollars.

So let’s get that clarified. Is it the former or the latter? I personally took it as the former because I have personally never heard of the latter being offered. But I have heard of donation tiers, where if you ‘donate’ so much to the server, you get different ‘kits’ or packages (usually literally Pippi kits) based on the donation tier.

If people are still claiming that they have never heard of a donation tier list with reward packages, then I’m kinda going to call BS on that. Go into any modding discord that has server advertisement and search donations. You will see dozens of server advertising donation rewards and tiers.

But let’s make sure that’s what you are talking about here before continuing in case their is any confusion.

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I agree with it all but I would only say that the “donation/reward” is semantics…you put money out, you get stuff in return and it’s stuff that isn’t cosmetic but actual materials and gear you need to move forward and compete in the game.

While I can sympathize with @Wielder , the fact that these are popular and people are going there show a demand and it could be just because the dynamics of the players have changed.

5 years ago, outside of us old folks that remember the original Wolfenstein or can’t read “no hurt, no kill” without going into a goat voice, many of the regular players were just starting their careers or still in school. They had time to kill and used it to play the game and level up and dominate against the world. Also COVID was a thing and gave a very large influx of others that literally had too much time on their hands. Those days are gone. Time is more precious now and if they want to seriously go into a PVP scenario, they can’t just grind 12 hours straight. So what does a person that doesn’t have the time to play the game they used to love do in this case? The cash shop is the answer. There is a huge demand for it because the game is older now and the players are now invested into their real lives more. The new players with too much time on their hands may join in here and there (you see them on the social media sites going on how awesome this game is and more people need to pick up this gem) but for the most part, CE isn’t the shiny new toy. It stopped being Buzz Lightyear and started being Woody so the new kids on the block are playing other games instead. This is your target audience for a vanilla server. Those that have the time to grind. Most of us don’t anymore. Not with TPS reports due and widgets needing to be made.

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Agree but it kinda nullifies whole game - its about farming / competing for it - its not arena where everyone have equal hp, all same gear and just duel.

I think most people who pays for it enjoys to have an advantage and its not only about time.

Problem comes when we mix playerbase newbies with experienced players or geared up with bis gear from cash shop.

People with personal taunts just stop - its not about me / whenever i am competetive enough. I enjoy challenges but i wish there was servers without cash shop / weird rules that hurt community in long run.

It used to be. I don’t think it is that anymore. On officials, it’s hard to say its competing with the harvesting rates they way they are. Devs have flat out said they want people to go fast through it all and get up into the action quickly.

An unfortunately truth…things get exploited. It happens in almost everything we have. Stuff that is there to help people out gets exploited by others just for personal gain. The only balance that can be reviewed is does it do more good than harm? It sounds to me that from your experiences, its definitely more harmful as far as having an “open” game. (It’s open in the sense that all can come in and play but functionally, if you don’t pony up, you are set to lose)

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My wife and I have had a PVE-C ps4 server up since shortly after game hit Playstation. Have met some really great people we don’t ask for donations have a Gentleman who is a admin selling things for fragments never had or will have cash transactions if we can’t keep it up it’s on us. We don’t even know who alot of our player base is. We do our thing and let others enjoy now that is a experience. Some of the old timers show up and start over again this game doesn’t need to be monetized to be enjoyed. My opinion.

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Which, to be fair, is something the players have been clamoring for. Anyone remember Ceronesthes and his video about the state of PVP? And how it was generally well-received and people agreed with most of it?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

One of the biggest complaints there was that getting into actual PVP – to paraphrase his own word – took too damn long.

Again, does this really hurt the game? We can’t even tell if it hurts those private servers, since they’re allegedly the most populated. If one can’t do that, how could one even begin to prop up the argument that it’s somehow hurting the whole game?

In fact, we should ask ourselves what it means for this game that people seem to be having more fun on a private server where they pay for something than on an official server provided for free. Isn’t the popular wisdom on these forums that given the choice of having something for free and paying for it, people would rather have it for free?

And now we look at people (allegedly) paying for fun and somehow conclude that the fault lies with them and with people providing that fun to them, instead of with Funcom’s management of their own free servers? Really?

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Its unfortunate that some players would support the theft of modders’ content for an advantage over their fellows. In this case the community could be hurting itself.

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Apologies to everyone for following @Taemien’s off-topic line of discussion. I’ll go delete my contributions.

As far as this topic is concerned, the fact that certain players prefer P2W and others don’t has no bearing on whether these private servers are somehow harming this game or not.

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In my view, this is just economic gating a server and pretending that it’s “open”.

It doesn’t hurt the game as a whole but if you are deadset against officials, it does put you in quite the dilemma as you don’t have tons of options at that point because everyone is in walled gardens or this pseudo-walled garden concept.

I used to agree with this but as the months go on with the harvest rates where they are at and I have changed my views somewhat. I don’t believe the current PVP player bases really want to actually fight anyone. They want to destroy bases but not truly fight anyone. Majority of combat I get into on PVP servers is when I interrupt an Offline raid they are doing and since I solo a lot, i let the 4+count team just blow up the fake base because it’s pointless to counter if they aren’t going to come at it in an honorable way. My entire building strategies have been developed by playing with dishonorable folks over the years to a point where they leverage all advantages they can to lash out and take me “down”. Only to find an empty shell with tier 1 crafters, and horse and a dancer and so they blow it up for revenge/jic they miss something. I mean the whole thing is actually more boring than PVE and I keep finding myself spending more time over there than PVP. …maybe it’s just I’m getting the blahs.

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Can’t argue with that. I’m really not into P2W myself. In fact, even in PVE, I dislike directly linking the donations to in-game rewards.

But whether you and I like it – or whether it’s truly open – is not really the point of this topic, is it?

Also true. The point I’m making is that there’s nothing stopping anyone from offering a private server without the P2W donations (or “cash shop”, if you insist). If there’s enough demand for those, they should be thriving, shouldn’t they?

Instead, we have here a complaint that those servers aren’t thriving and that it’s the fault of the servers with the “cash shop”. The tortured of logic involved in that claim boggles my mind.

Out of curiosity, does that belief come from playing official PVP servers only, or do you also see that same behavior on private servers?

I haven’t gotten to the private servers…it’s hard to find ones where the admins don’t play and are accessible for my system. I don’t bother with servers where the admins play. The risk of abuse is too great (like the One Ring) and the distrust I would have in the scenarios would be difficult for me to have faith admin panel wasn’t used so I don’t bother.

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Yep and that is why I told him/her to focus on the target audience…not us old timers that have jobs kids and other distractions from the important stuff like brimstone harvesting (It’s a joke people) but the young’uns that have the spare time to do all of that…of course that also means dealing with young mentalities…and I’m at the age where if I’m not related to you, I don’t have to deal with it and each day I don’t…that’s a win :wink:

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Well, he was specifically talking about “cash shops” on “high population PVP servers” with the explicit benefit of the “cash shops” being to receive a direct advantage over other players (aka items). Thus, I personally took it as paying for in game items (maybe they are using pippi to deliver the items, I have no idea), but that specific scenario, I have never seen. But I also tend to ignore most servers discord servers as well so I could also be a bit out of the loop. :woman_shrugging:

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It pretty much is. I’ve seen people suggest that they should be able to buy stuff rather than farm because they don’t have time because of work, wife, and kids. But what about those guys who have work, wife, and kids and don’t have the extra income to buy that stuff? Or those who have all the time in the world AND a disposable income? Pay for advantages doesn’t solve as many issues as it creates for players.

Many of us have pretty much made that point. I mean the OP said the numbers don’t lie. And he was right, it just worked against his initial argument there. These servers aren’t hurting the game directly.

Here’s where the game and the community in general DOES get hurt. When modders get their content sold without their permission and lose creative drive in the process. Not only do we potentially lose great content (at least for PC, I feel for you console folks, I really do on this). But players don’t like to see their favorite modders get disillusioned, just based on a empathetic standpoint.

Does losing modders hurt the game and drive the numbers down in a significant way? I don’t know that it does. I do know that FC commits a significant amount of time if not also resources to the modding community. They either believe its profitable to help modders, or at the very least its something they ought to do. You can see that effort in the modders discord and in the Lead Producer’s letter.

I have noticed a distinct lack of desire over the last decade of people wanting to actually fight it out in many games. This isn’t exactly an issue with Conan Exiles itself. It happens in any game where losing pixels is a possibility. Unfortunately when you take the chance of losing items out of the equation, it loses its edge.

The biggest issue with PVP in provided or private is drama. I’ve seen some really great fights, we’re talking full on sieges with dozens on either side. Enough explosions going off to make you think you were on Normandy Beach. Everyone seems to be having a great time, battle ends and everyone groups up to slap each other on the backs for how awesome it was, friend and enemy alike.

Only for grudges that happened and you didn’t see to spike up a day or two later. For reasons I cannot even begin to understand. Drama invariably crops up. Even amongst those who win.

What’s ironic about this… I’ve not actually seen admins abuse their abilities in PVP. I’m sure it happens. But the most egregious thing I’ve seen regarding a server owner is one playing on a server ran by someone else. They played straight on their own server just fine. Broke just about every rule when on someone else’s server.

As an admin myself, I use a separate account to admin on. For both practical purposes (so my admin builds aren’t tied to a playing character/guild), and to instill a bit of trust and transparency (all admin actions are logged by default by the server software).

Its not really a practical thing to require admins to play on other servers. They’re not being paid to admin. If mods are involved, then that requires them to swap out modlists everytime they swap to another server. If they are playing on other servers, that’s time spent out of the server they could be actively moderating. But the less money is involved, the more honest admins/owners tend to be. Greed is likely a bigger problem causing admin abuse then simple power.

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I wonder why … How come noone wants to work for free while paying 200 EUR a month for others to enjoy themselves.

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