Stout perk is absolutely useless

Stout Perk (10 Grit)

I manged to get to 271 stamina. 1/5 of that is 54. 54 armor… That is 14 more armor than what the first Grit perk provides and only when you are full stamina because it is based on your current stamina.

Such a waste of a perk.


Some perks are indeed extremely lackluster.

I’m inclined to agree. Especially with diminishing returns on armor value, this perks gets more useless the more armor and grit you have. Meanwhile 25% faster stamina regen is always a better option at any level.

Even if they buffed it to armor value equal to half or even all your stamina, I’d still be hesitant to take it.

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Agreed. Absolutely weak. I’d rather see it scale as a percentage of your current armor PLUS half your max stamina.

It seems there is more than one illusion system. The Perks give us the illusion of choice.


The fact that stout is so lackluster and tied to the total amount of stamina you have at the moment and with such a small boost to overall armor value as to be meaningless.

Case in point, 1,500 armor is a ~85% damage reduction.

The maximum stamina armor bonus is so minimal and requires as little stamina use as possible to get anything out of the perk at all that it renders the current perk not worth the investment.

I suggested in another thread that Stout should be removed and replaced by Second Skin (Strength).

Second Skin (Strength) could be replaced with Flattening Shot (Fourth Accuracy perk from live) which provides knockdown from heavy bow shots, thus giving bow perks in both Strength and Agility.

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But why? Damage bonus is 10x more from agility. Would be counterproductive to put a perk in one stat that benefits something from a completely different one

For the same reason strength perks still work with agility weapons. Have you tried running both strength and agility in testlive yet? the damage output is phenomenal.

Grit - has a heavy focus on stamina and defence. Moving second skin makes more sense there than anywhere else.

Agility - Perks from agility apply to both strength and agility weapons.

Strength - Perks from strength apply to both strength and agility weapons.

Flattening shot makes sense as a strength perk because the knockdown would be caused by strength on the draw. It makes no sense in agility because agility has no effect on how far you can pull back a bow string.

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I think the stout perk is meant more for light armor users. The extra armor is more noticeable to light armor. A highly mobile build.

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250 stamina provides 50 armor.

Damage reduction = armor / armor + 250


That is a 1.6% damage reduction for 250 stamina. utterly pointless.


1-2% more damage reduction xD

Given what you have to invest to get there…


extremely weak perk compared to its competitor.

25 % of stamina regen at all times, not based in anything, applied to light, medium and heavy armor.

Stout should give 200/300 extra armor based on your MAX stamina. maybe then i can see it used on light builds.

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Just needs to be tweaked. How about just the max stamina is the armor bump? The reduction in damage mitigation per armor point has made it so 250 extra isn’t that much unless you already are squishy anyways

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Haven’t played testlive and I can still see how pointless Stout is. Somethings gotta be done here.

There are two feats in the new build that are just plainly bad.

Stout is one that, under absolutely no circumstances, has any usefulness. The armor it provides is tied to maximum stamina in the bar meaning any attacks, running, or combat action instantly throws it out the window and the 1/5th of the total bar is comically irrelevant as, even at absolute maximum possible stamina, you’re only getting a 1.6% damage reduction on a full bar.

The other competitor for bad perk is structural integrity at the end of the expertise tree.

These two need a serious re-working before going to live, which is supposed to happen in 4 days…


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