Aquilonia, landlocked?

Their is no description at all of giant king in Robert E Howard novels.

But interesting the design of AOC.

Not technically. But if you go by Rippke’s connections and essays (I know, you don’t like him, but funcom adopted him as canon), Acheronians like Xaltotun, Akivasha(yes Acheronian not ancient Stygian, there’s an in-lore reason for the misconception), and Thugra Khotan are described as unnaturally tall, pale, and slender. Being the hybrid descendants of the Giant-Kings, that would make those particular descriptors the most accentuated parts of them to work off of. But the four arms is interesting, as even in Exiles some statues depict four-armed giant-kings. It’s possible some of their race was, but the difference and reasons between a two-armed and four-armed is unknown to me.

Perhaps you need to read things more carefully. :wink:

sorry, but 100% sepculative things. And concordism. no canon stuff.
Akivasha is presented as stygian, aged of 10 000 years…Kull event was 100 000 years age…and I think giant king was befor that. But Akivasha is just an very old stygian.

I will not read again all Robert E howard stuff to find your point. give me proof of what you say, in what text it’s said etc…

In other words “I’m to lazy, do the work for me”. :woman_facepalming:

No.

The burden of proof is on you; otherwise, I could read through everything—which is long and tedious—only to come back and tell you I was right, and you’d just say, “No, you misread it; read it all over again.” That’s not how it works. You’re making a claim, so it’s up to you to prove it.
I can’t point to the non-existence of such a description.
It’s a matter of logic.

Actually, I already have. So has Jimbo. So has DanQixote.

Your inability to read is not our burden to prove. That is your own laziness. Either learn to read and stop being so entitled and to expect everyone to hand you everything on a silver platter, or expect to be disappointed in life.

I answer…not canonical element, just concordism, theories, but don’t work with timeline. Akivasha is discribed by author like stygian, lived in Luxur (stygia capital). You are no more right than Robert E. Howard was about his own work.

Speculative and concordism.

See? Two can play at that game. At least I had the decency to cite sources, versus you plugging your ears and going “nuh uh lalala not real”

Akivasha is described as Stygian because by Conan’s interpretation based on contemporary races, she looks Stygian - specificially a Stygian noble which looks vastly different from commoner stygians for a reason. Luxur was not originally a Stygian founded city, it was a giant-king city conquered by the Khari. Rippke’s works assert that through diplomacy some giant-kings defected their empire of old acheron and intermarried with the khari to retain status and power in the new regime. This is why stygian nobility has the same features as other acheronians, because they share the same genetic heritage.

Yes but I admit it is.

Akivasha can’t be giant-King because she is confirmed as stygian from Luxur.

Xaltotun could be a giant king if we use the hypothesis that giant king = Acheronian.

I don’t think it’s the case but it can work.
We know giant king was in stygian aera before the ancestors of stygians was here.
Achéron too.
But like Robert E Howard speak about Giant-king, it’s like a very ancient mythologist thing, so, I thing it’s older than that.
But theory giant kings = acheronians can work.
What can’t work is Akivasha = Giant king.
I think achéonians and giant kings are two differents people. (because named differently is principal reason.)

So, Giant king are evocated one time and with no description at all.

Well, they certainly adopted some of his work - is it clear that they adopted all?

Xaltotun is certainly Acheronian. Thugra Khotan is described by REH as Stygian (but he is being inconsistent here, since his description seems clearly to reference Acheron rather than Stygia). Both are ‘3000 years dead’, so roughly contemporaries.

“In that ivory dome lay the bones of Thugra Khotan, the dark sorcerer who had reigned in Kuthchemes three thousand years ago, when the kingdoms of Stygia stretched far northward of the great river, over the meadows of Shem, and into the uplands. Then the great drift of the Hyborians swept southward from the cradle-land of their race near the northern pole. It was a titanic drift, extending over centuries and ages. But in the reign of Thugra Khotan, the last magician of Kuthchemes, gray-eyed, tawny-haired barbarians in wolfskins and scale-mail had ridden from the north into the rich uplands to carve out the kingdom of Koth with their iron swords. They had stormed over Kuthchemes like a tidal wave, washing the marble towers in blood, and the northern Stygian kingdom had gone down in fire and ruin.”

Akivasha is ‘10,000 years dead’, so clearly of a different vintage. If we go by (what appears to be) Rippke’s timetable, that places her around 4,000 years before the fall of Atlantis (and the rest of the cataclysm), which means she cannot be either Stygian or Acheronian (if the timetable is correct) - assuming that timetable, then Oduda has shown she pretty much can only be pure Giant-King. Of course, this only works with what appears to be REH’s original intent for Giant-Kings - tall, pale, pre-human, but not non-human. It does not work with Funcom’s version of Giant-Kings (because,as I noted earlier, Conan would have to be really drunk to mistake a member of Funcom’s Giant-Kings for a Stygian Noble.

So Akivasha creates a contradiction - if Funcom wants to use Rippke and his timetable, then she must be pure Giant-King; but she cannot be a pure member of their Giant-Kings and still be mistaken for human. (With or without the four arms…)

Provided we are talking about REH’s Giant-Kings, I have no problem with Xaltotun, Thugra Khotan (and ultimately Thoth-Amon) all being to greater or lesser degrees hybrids - blending REH Giant-King with Khari and even some blood from the surrounding populace (though not so much as to make the noble class resemble the commoners) . I struggle a bit more with that being the case for Funcom’s version of the race - but we’ve discussed that before, and I’ll certainly concede that it is not impossible.

Within Funcom-lore, it seems reasonable to speculate that both versions might exist. Very hard to go beyond speculation without more actual information.

Yes. This is pretty clearly intended to represent Conan’s misinterpretation based on an asumption that she is a normal woman - if she were, then her looks would mean she must be a Stygian noble, because that is what she resembles. Once he learns who she is and how old, he no longer needs to speculate - she is revealed as either Acheronian or Giant-King depending on a) how accurate Rippke’s timeline is, and b) which version of Giant-Kings we are talking about.

Trying to reconcile all this within Funcom-lore is difficult, because of the fore-mentioned contradictions. Either Rippke’s timeline has to be thrown out and she is 10,000 year old Acheronian (and possibly hybrid), with the cataclysm coming more than 10,000 years in the past. Or, if the timeline is to be kept, then she must be significantly exagerating her age (and actually be closer to 5-6,000 years old) - because within Funcom-lore she cannot be pure Giant-King in the way that she might be under pure REH.

This is another problem I have with Rippke - his use of the term ‘old Acheron’ to describe the Giant-Kings’ kingdom muddies the waters. REH gave no name for it that I am aware of, and it is perhaps safer simply referred to as the Giant-Kings’ kingdom, because otherwise it creates confusion as to which Acheron is which.

Again, this creates problems (though to a far lesser extent than Akivasha) if we take Rippke at face value. No question on the second sentence, but the first is not so proven (or provable). It is quite plausible with REH’s original Giant-Kings (with Akivasha as a likely pure-blood example), because their appearance seems to have been far more human. But Funcom Giant-Kings are a bit more problematic, and push me back towards what REH actually wrote in the Hyborian Age - the survivors continued to exist, and even be worshipped, but he does not put forward the interbreeding idea. (Again, it is not impossible - but Funcom’s own presentation makes it seem less likely. Indeed someone was speculating recently that Tyros is more likely the result of the Priest-King’s magic in combination with Telith rather than straightforward interbreeding. Far from proven, of course, but with Funcom’s version of Giant-Kings it fits better than the alternative.)

I cant say about Aqualonia, but Exiles is confirmed to be on my hard drive and G portal server i play on :grin:

“Confirmed”. Except when you know… you actually READ THE TEXT.

I mean, where did Conan encounter Akivasha? I already told everyone but since you are to lazy to read even this very thread I suppose I’ll have to copy that as well. And this is taken directly from The Hour of the Dragon.

So first off, that would be KHEMI not LUXOR, but furthermore she was found deep within the pyramid that "legends hinted that the Stygians did not build them; that they were in the land at whatever immeasurably ancient date the dark-skinned people came into the land of the great river." Now since reading, and comprehending, obviously are NOT your strong points this clearly indicates that the Pyramids in Stygia were build by the Giant-Kings prior to the invasion of the Khari.

Then we come to the fact that Akivasha herself mentions her age.

She died TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO! She pre-dates the Stygia. The pre-dates the Khari. She pre-dates Acheron. She is from the Thurian Age.

In the Hyborian Age essay you find this (also posted above in this thread)

So we know that the the area which would become Stygia was occupied by a “Pre-Human race”, that said race was untouched by the Great Cataclysm which ended the Thurian Age and brought forth the Hyborian Age, and that they were eventually conqured by the Khari who then set up a new kingdom known as Stygia in it’s place.

Here is a map of the Thurian Age. Notice where that Pre-Human Race is located? RIGHT WHERE STYGIA WOULD BE LOCATED!

Then we have this little gem in The God in the Bowl (ALSO in this very thread)

So once again Robert E. Howard clearly states that Stygia was occupied by a Pre-Human race BEFORE the Stygians came to rule there, and that the race which was previously there were called the Giant-Kings.

Now, can you finally comprehend anything yet? Was it really so difficult to SCROLL UP to locate the information that was right here ON THIS VERY THREAD which showed the quotes from the various works of Robert E. Howard, and listed which works they were from? What this so bloody difficult?

Thurian age is 100 000 years before hyborian age. I’m not intersted with no-canonical books or others…

He really isn’t being inconsistent though. Thugra Khotan is from Stygia. Is he from a Noble line that was intermixed with the blood of the Giant-Kings who supported the Khari, hence his physical appearance being similar? Now you are onto something. :wink: And being from roughly the same time as Xaltotun said blood has not been so “thinned” that he really would stand out more than the “modern day” (for Conan that is) Stygian Nobles.

Here is the full account of the timeline I have used.

Well, in order to place the datings according to ALL of Howard’s Conan material, you need to add some other stuff not found in “The Hyborian Age”.

Pre-Cataclysmic Age [381–2]
0: Cataclysm: Atlantis and Lemuria sink, Pictish Islands heaved up. Continental Picts and Atlanteans survive. Lemurians escape to eastern coast of Thurian Continent, enslaved by the ancient race there. Proto-Hyborians flee north, drive the snow-apes north. [382–3]
500: Pictish–Atlantean wars end. Lesser cataclysm; creates inland sea. [382–3]
1000: Acheron founded by the children of the Giant-Kings.
1500: Lemurians have risen and destroyed their masters, who came west, overthrew the giant-kings, founded the “human” kingdom of Stygia. Hyborians have spread over the north; begin to drift southward [383–4]
2000: Hyborians sweep south. Descendants of Zhemri revive. Sons of Shem wander east of Stygia. Agriculture evolved in valley of Zingg. Hyperborea has come into being. [384–5]
2000-2500: Zamora founded. Stygia expands into the lands settled by the Shemites, and lays claim to the lands east of the growing empire of Acheron. Zingara’s aboriginal inhabitants absorbed by a Pictish influx.
2500–3000: Hyborian tribes settle in the lands under Stygian rule. Hyborian tribes settle the strip of land that exists between Acheron and the Pictish and Cimmerian wilderness. The first Hyborian nations (Koth, Ophir, and Corinthia) are founded, but remain under Stygia’s domination. Zingara founded after a tribe of Hybori conquer and absorb the region’s inhabitants. [385]
3000–3500: Koth, Ophir and Corinthia successfully rebel against Stygia and sack Kuthchemes. The nation of Acheron falls under the combined weight of a Hyborian invasion. Aquilonia, Nemedia, Argos and Brythunia are founded. Koth flexs its might and drives the Stygians south of the Styx. [385–6]
3500: The kingdoms of the world are defined: the Hyborian kingdoms, Zamora, Zingara, Stygia, Cimmeria, Picts [385–6]
3500–4000: Æsir and Vanir in Nordheim. Lemurians emerge as Hyrkanians, establish Turan. [386]
4000: Hyborian civilization enters its height [386–7]
5000: Kothic adventurers carve the small kingdoms of Khauran and Khoraja out of the Shemitish lands to the southeast of Koth
6000(approx) Conan becomes King of Aquilonia.
6500: Fall of Hyborian civilization [387–97]

A predominance of the non-“Hyborian Age” source material comes from “Black Colossus” and “Hour of the Dragon”. The “Hyborian Age” essay was written when Howard first began to write the Conan stories, and while it can be used as a guide to the world, some of it’s datings were superseded by history that Howard established in later stories. It can’t be thought of as “written in stone”.

Well, she clearly said she died 10,000 years ago. However, that is not the only case for this. There is also this:

His voice trailed away. He was staring at the mummy-case, on which the countenance of the occupant was carved in ivory with the startling vividness of a forgotten art. There was a disquieting familiarity about that carven mask, and with something of a shock he realized what it was; there was a startling resemblance between it and the face of the girl lolling on the ebon couch. She might have been the model from which it was carved, but he knew the portrait was at least centuries old. Archaic hieroglyphics were scrawled across the lacquered lid, and, seeking back into his mind for tag-ends of learning, picked up here and there as incidentals of an adventurous life, he spelled them out, and said aloud: ‘Akivasha!’

‘You have heard of Princess Akivasha?’ inquired the girl on the couch.

‘Who hasn’t?’ he grunted. The name of that ancient, evil, beautiful princess still lived the world over in song and legend, though ten thousand years had rolled their cycles since the daughter of Tuthamon had reveled in purple feasts amid the black halls of ancient Luxur.

‘Her only sin was that she loved life and all the meanings of life,’ said the Stygian girl. ‘To win life she courted death. She could not bear to think of growing old and shriveled and worn, and dying at last as hags die. She wooed Darkness like a lover and his gift was life—life that, not being life as mortals know it, can never grow old and fade. She went into the shadows to cheat age and death—’

So clearly Conan was well acquainted with the story of Akivasha before they met, and said story already said that she had died 10,000 year ago. So, one can infer that she must clearly be from the Thurian Age, which would make her pure Giant-King.

UNLESS - Perhaps they had already begun to intermix with humans even back then? That is possible though there is no way to know one way or another. :woman_shrugging:

Yeah you clearly have no fvcking idea what you are talking about and rather than admit when you wrong you just shove your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to anything. GROW THE FVCK UP!!

You are in love with your theory what was never said by Robert E Howard.
It’s fullconfirmation bias and agressivity for nothing.

We have NOT offical timeline.
we know Kull lived in 100 000 BC (my error…it was not 100 000 before conan, you can have this info in “kings of the night”). All chronlogy you use for affirmate your point was never made by Robert E Howard. (pasticheurs change it with 20 000 bc, but Robert E howard version is the good

ALL you explain is in contradiction with what say books. If REH wanted to make one characters a Giant-King, He would have written it.

Think what you want. But it’sabsolutly not what robert E howard wrote.

I’m done with that.

Discussion about the snowglobe theory and lore tend to devolve into shouting and quote wars. Just don’t bother. This forum is good for many things; this isn’t one of them. :wink:

No one has done any of that until this idiot shows up, demands everyone do their reading for them because they are to lazy to get off their arse and put in any effort and then when they are proven wrong, unequivocally , they refuse to even DISCUSS anything at all and act like a petulant child who didn’t get their way.

@DanQuixote @Jimbo and myself were all having a rather friendly discussion about the topic.

Then @Myrdhim shows up and decides to act like a spoiled, self entitled little man child.

It is, but @Myrdhim isn’t one of them. :wink: