*CROM!* desperately needs an overhaul!

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
206

Ok, I’m sold
give players who chose Crom a way to complete the journey steps without the other deities.

I apologize to @Croms_Faithful I never even considered the Journey steps
I’m a bit short sighted when it comes to “journey steps” aka “achievements”
because when I played a different game I won’t mention,
but if you guess you’ll say WoW I should have known :wink:

I spent 3 years chasing Achievements, only to have the requirements changed to be easier a week after I had gotten them, making all my time and effort meaningless. I have disregarded such things since that time.

tldr: I’m on board FIX Crom.

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207

You’re not betraying a god who offers you nothing in the first place. Theres nothing to betray. Also, having knowledge on how to build a structure isn’t the same as worshipping that god. Having the knowledge of other religions doesn’t necessarily mean you worship them. Heck, having an item from that religion doesn’t mean you worship them. If Crom gets anything, it shouldnt be small, because he doesn’t want your prayer. It plainly states that. If Crom gets changed it shouldnt be a “simple anvil that does nothing” because that literally breaks any lore that anyone enjoyed it should be a difficult task any time you show him your worshipping him or want his attention.
And instead of feeling like you betrayed him, maybe you should feel like you’re more creative. you figured out a solution to a problem without bothering your god that specifically asks you not to bother him. I think that is more loyal to Crom than blatantly disobeying him would be.

208

another solution that I am 100% behind would be,
Remove the religion journey steps altogether.
But this would be for the benefit of people who care about such things.

In honesty I don’t care about Journey steps at all.
Remove them all, add more?
I don’t care I will disregard them each and everyone.

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209

Now, that is something I can get behind with all my heart. And of your 3 original suggestions – Valor/Fury of Crom, Forge of Crom and Crom-themed gear – I support the latter two wholeheartedly. The first goes deeply against what I believe Crom’s role should be in the game :slight_smile:

And yet, when you use other gods’ shrines, you produce what’s literally called “Manifestation of Zeal”. Not to mention the journey steps “Venerate the gods” and “Show your religious zeal” :wink:

The reason I’m okay with @Croms_Faithful’s idea is because it can all be couched in terms of honoring Crom, rather than worshipping Crom.

Of course, I’m still not sure how his idea would be made to fit the “Show your religious zeal” step, without turning it into Crom-worship. The first journey step could be renamed to “Honor the gods” or something like that, and it could be completed by using Crom’s Forge, for example. But how do you “Show your religious zeal” for Crom, when that’s the antithesis of belief in Crom? That’s something @Croms_Faithful should figure out to finish fleshing out his proposal :wink:

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210

Yes, and your showing them to Crom by not bothering him. Like he specifically asks of his followers.

An atheist can go to church, pray to God, and still walk out and think “I still wanna be an atheist, I wont be coming back here”

Crom asks nothing of you except to ask nothing from him. Finding a way around journey steps that youd need to “ask his help” for is actually honoring your god in a sense. And doesn’t break his lore.

As someone who thinks Crom doesn’t need anything because it’s the point of him, if anything is added, I’d rather see it be an extreme overhaul as suggested. In that you break what he wants you do to by worshipping him so he sends a purge or something. Building something for Crom should have negative consequences if added, not “do nothing” except complete a journey step. It tells you at the beginning of the game you’re at a disadvantage with Crom, the disadvantage is that you cant call on gods and you miss two journey steps, if a follower of Crom were asked to do the journey steps that we are, they would most likely find a way to do so without asking Crom, as they know he doesn’t want your attention.

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I would argue that there’s a difference between “I made you, now fsck off and be strong, which includes not asking me for any favors” and “you’re forbidden to show your faith in me”. And yes, the canon lore about Crom is that it’s “better to be silent than to call his attention to you”, but I don’t think that visiting a forge – not made by Crom but mortals from ages past – or having Crom-themed gear without any special bonuses is necessarily against that.

On the other hand, I also like the idea of having these acts provoking the wrath of Crom. I like it a lot. It would still give Crom’s followers a way to complete the journey steps, but it would involve an actual challenge, as opposed to the mechanical so-called worship of other “gods” (except Jhebbal Sag, whose Midnight Grove is freaking awesome).

And it’s not just any challenge, it’s thematically appropriate: Crom gets pissed off at you for bothering him and sends you a smackdown, which you overcome through your strength, which ends up pleasing him.

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212

Ummmm… yes it is. Its there in my menu as something I should not have as Crom believer. >_>

Talking to NPC doesn’t add anything. You can literately talk to Yog-mister, learn emote and trigger journal step and never become Yog fanatic. Not sure why you pointed that out.

If I was trying to get Moon replaced with Nyan Cat, or Add My little Pony, or Tanks, or Airplanes, I’d get the counter feed back alot of users try to give.

Its a simple fix. And we can’t have it? Why? Why are some of you so damn adamnt on stopping users from having things we want? I get you wan overhaul…but…

I can’t get new hair styles, I can’t get a barber, I can’t get custom thralls or even character redos, I can’t get dlc to have some of new items, I can’t get outfits I want, Can’t get land claim fixes, I can’t get text chat…I can’t even get “fun” sorcery cause of Lore reasons.
Now I can’t have a simple fix to a ■■■■■■■■ journal entry to keep my Crom Character, Crom only.

Cause, I should break my immersion, cause you say I should instead of some simple little fix.
Lets get a simple fix thing going before we go the overhaul route you want.

The game lets you pick Crom at creation, with or with out knowing what it truely is. Its Choice “You” Make. Which is then counter by game mechanics, saying you must now pick one, build altar to them to move journal/story forward and then make offering to said God.

And then pretend you didnt do that. That right there breaks lore in some ways.

Its simple fix… that doesnt need over haul. Look, Crom and Purges idea is a good one. Even Jens and ?___ whos name escapes me) chuckled at idea. But as it was pointed out, Lore wise… thats likely not gonna happen.

Lets go with a fix that isnt gonna break anything 1st, before 15-20gb update to Crom.

if It sound like I’m being snippy…its cause I’am. Double ear infection and going over thread of wants for this game and relized anything I’ve liked or posted I wanted hasnt made it into this game.
I’d be happy if I had to stop using admin panel to bypass journal entries and being stuck with altar in crafting menu after forcing myself to use one to get my journal entries to stay nicely updated in corner. -_-’

If I can’t get fix for this…then god damnit gimme my hair styles…

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213

Even not being made my Crom, it is in the name of Crom, which is showing your faith. it’s not even that he doesn’t want your worship, he doesn’t want your faith, so actually, I’d argue the opposite. In that, that’s exactly what he means, “I made you, now go live your life and don’t ask me for favors” is fairly accurate to “you’re forbidden to show your faith”. while not completely the same, it goes along the same lines. building any forge in his name is showing faith, whether designed by humans or not. I mean, just because I build a shrine to Jesus with my own plan, doesn’t mean it’s not a shrine for Jesus. I’m not specifically worshipping him, but having the shrines purpose of being a shrine for Jesus means that I just built Jesus a shrine. I just appeased Jesus, whether directly worshipping him or not. that calls attention, the one thing he asks you not to do. There simply shouldn’t be a Crom related item that causes no negative effects. even the sword of Crom has a negative effect.

This is about the only change I accept. it shouldn’t be a “minimal change” just to get a journey step, because they have ways around getting that journey step.

214

True, but I think that one backfired, because people just give it to thralls :confused:

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215

If you think about it that way, yeah, sure. but I’ve given a simple option in an RP sense as to why you’d have it. building something to Crom is showing your faith in him and therefore breaking lore anyway. You’re blatantly showing him that you don’t care that he wants you to not show your faith, and you should be punished, not given a journey step.

learning to build a shrine for a different god in an RP sense is more creative than having an altar for Crom. Because you show your god that you don’t need him, just like he wants you to. as 've said, building a shrine doesn’t specifically mean that you “worship” that god. Learning about another religion isn’t demeaning the religion you follow in any way, shape, or form. It’s actually broadening your horizons. wouldn’t you want your character to have as much knowledge as possible?

I’d honestly be perfectly cool with removing/replacing those two Journey steps altogether, as Droch mentioned, if it meant we didn’t have to add a shrine that does absolutely nothing in-game except give a journey step.

216

That’s true, but that’s because thralls having a stamina bar would be way easier to cheese/break. realistically, it probably should’ve sapped a bit of your health for every swing.

217

I honestly would like all of these things added. and I’m not trying to irritate you more at all with any of my posts, but coming from the side of not wanting Crom to change at all, if you want you blatantly disregard what he wants his followers to do, go all out. Give the altars the same boosts as the others, replacing the avatar with something of equal force, but give the proper negative elements that Crom would want to do to the ones who disregarded his wishes. Crom wouldn’t do nothing. At this point, my opinion has actually kind of changed towards giving Crom a full overhaul rather than keeping him the same, just not making the change minimal.

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218

If the Atheist, was an Atheist before entering the church it makes him a hypocrite, lacking in moral conviction and everything we atheists are accused of by the religious right.

Honor is a thing, and even atheists or Crom worshipers can have it, especially Crom worshipers.

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219

How are you supposed to make informed decisions if you haven’t tried it? You as an Atheist would completely condemn any other Atheist that went tried a different religion to see if it fit their needs as a hypocrite? It sounds more to me like they are making themselves more educated on the religion, to properly make the decision if not following it.

220

I wasn’t born an atheist
I was raised Mormon, originally I wanted to become a preacher.
my uncles were deacons in the Church

I studied the bible, I found nothing but contradiction and misinterpretation / mistranslation
I looked at other religion everything from buddhism to the hindu beliefs including other forms of christianity. I then started looking at the stories these religions were based on.

I looked at pagan beliefs also and Mythology the Greek, Norse and Celtic pathions.

It was a long and difficult realization to become an atheist.

I have sat in church next to my wife, for her benefit. I do not pray, there is nothing to pray for, or to pray to.

so yes if an atheist prays they are either not truly atheist, or a hypocrite.

if you doubt god, you are agnostic not atheist
An atheist knows there is nothing to pray to.

221

I like this suggestion a lot! Seems like the kind of thing a barbarious and Malevolent god would do.

222

Holy mackrel! Well I can honestly say that I was not expecting to get you both onboard with regards to this issue. Thankyou both so much gentlemen, I am humbled by your support and understanding. This issue is extremely dear me, in fact it was the whole reason why I came to the Forum in the first place. The challenge for me now, lies in trying to convince Joel of its merits.

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223

Thankyou again for offering your support on this one CodeMage. That one little paragraph captures all that I want in a nutshell. I dont want to have a Crom avatar added into the game, or to have him craft healing potions and the like for me, as that would literally go against the very way of Crom, and do his character a great diservice. All I would like is a handful of Roleplaying items (which offer no advantage or benefit), and a way to complete the Journey Steps without betraying him.

Yes! You have now broken off the armour and are now staring right at the beating heart of here CodeMage. This is the crux of my argument. Im so glad you were able to pick up on this. As I have said in the past, I am kind of bad at explaining what I mean to others at times, well in written text anyway.

As you correctly pointed out, there is a big difference between honouring Crom and showing our allegiance to him as opposed to actually worshipping him. And building something for ourselves in the Handcrafting menu or a Forge is no more an act of worship than building something ourselves at our workbench in real life.

No I can understand that. It was almost 2 years ago now that I started this Suggestion, and like other users, my perceptions have changed and evolved as I have unearthed more lore. I now agree that the Valor of Crom is not a very good idea. It was just an early idea, not something Im set in. It is not popular, only being liked by one other member thus far, and in fact I have a feeling that it is making some members reluctant to support my call. I have actually thinking of removing it from the list. What do you think CodeMage? I will also ask 2 of my most loyal supporters on this issue too.

@WhatMightHaveBeen and @jesstheripper, do you guys agree that it should go?

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224

My humble opinion is that it should definitely be crossed out. The other two can be made to work fine. I especially like blunadz6196’s idea that using the Forge would result in a “challenge smackdown” sent by Crom, but that’s just my opinion :wink:

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225

I’m not entirely against it, but agree that it is the farthest away from the give nothing concept of Crom. I feel that a better approach would be a permanent survival buff, nothing too game changing but still evidence that you’ve lived an unforgiving life.

the other things, such as sweet cimerian and barbarian style armors and weapons, Im all in!

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