*CROM!* desperately needs an overhaul!

- Crom needs an overhaul -

This topic has come up before, and has drawn passionate debate on both sides. However, I am here to argue for a greater role for Crom in Conan Exiles, and am encouraging an open dialogue from players and devs alike on this issue, as it is an important one. As such, this post is long and explorative.

Crom needs something…ANYTHING!! Crom is arguably the most important deity in the Conan universe, and the God of its central figure, Conan himself. A God as cool as Crom needs more. He needs to be better represented in the game, as at this point in time, his only role is essentially an ‘opt-out’ option for the games religion system at the start of the game. I can completely understand the decision for him to have no avatar, and offer no direct aid; that is his nature. I also completely understand and respect the decision by Funcom to take this approach which is friendly to the source material. However, I would argue that Crom can still be included in the game in other ways. So after much head scratching, I have assembled several suggestions as to how he can be overhauled for a rightly deserved, more visible role:

1. Forge of Crom:
Two possibilities exist for this. The first is a forge built by the earliest worshippers of Crom who came to the exiled lands in a time long past, now lost to the sands of time. This has been touched upon previously. Has the potential to overlap with number 2. A forge where the player can travel to (preferably atop of one of the highest peaks or near the mounds of the dead in Tundra biome), with recipes on a nearby tablet with which we could learn to build it ourselves. It would allow players to craft Crom themed weapons and/or armour. This would be a simple re-skin of the existing blacksmiths bench, however have a distinct theme of Crom relating to it. It could also serve as a possible alternative to a shrine. Of course neither the Forge itself or any weapons created in it would be either given or created by Crom himself or mystical in their origins. But rather something which the player built with their own two hands as a tribute and show of loyalty in honour of him. We can already see this now in a couple of the weapons from Conan lore.

2. Crom themed Weapons (and/or Armour and Decorations):
The most passive and lore friendly, and my personal favourite. These would simply be re-skins of existing weapons. As they are only a cosmetic difference, they would not offer the player any advantage. I would suggest hardened steel or star metal due to their Cimmerian nature. I visualise these as being more Valhallan or Viking themed. They could be included in the aforementioned Forge of Crom or learned seperately as a ‘religion’ during the game just as the ‘mountaineer’ religion is learned by the Mountaineer, or the ‘midnight alchemist’ religion from Child of JhebbelSag. A Crom religion trainer option could be added to either Conan himself or Braga who are both already Crom worshippers. Or we could add a new NPC. It is not uncommon to dedicate forged weapons or even symbols and objects to Crom, as I demonstrate through lore references throughout this thread.

3. A Flat Stats bonus:
While it may not be the idea with the most flair, it is certainly plausible. In addition to Crom granting men the power to strive and slay at birth, the Cimmerians as a people are renound for their strength, hardy constitution and prowess in battle. As such, it has been suggested that choosing Crom as your god should grant a simple, fixed bonus to certain Attributes, with Strength and Survival proving the most common thus far.

4. Crom ‘Purge’:
The most recent proposed addition, and as revealed during a Dev Stream, a feature which was originally to be included in the game. This concept has proved to be quite popular thus far. The idea behind it is that through an undetermined in-game course of action, we draw Crom’s attention. Then of course he becomes resentful and sends a very high powered Purge in to kill the player in question. This could also make for not only a very nice, but also very challenging new game mechanic.

Shrines are another, albeit contentious possibility. Personally I would not object to the addition of a shrine or monument to Crom, even if it is a purely ornamental and non-functional shrine or monument (ie-doesnt produce anything). Or have banners, seals or busts with the Mountain symbol of his religion. Ben Morgh is considered sacred after all. Although hypothetically, if it were actually functional what material would it use. Hmmm…I say baby animals or heads for sacriffices (well he is a gloomy and savage God after all!). The shrine could even potentially serve as the catalyst of a Crom Purge. Ultimately, my goal here is to argue that something should be implemented; not what specifically. A large part of the motive myself and others have for this cause stems from the following. The first, is that many of us would like a way to complete the games Journey Steps, the closest thing we have to a main questline, without betraying our allegiance to Crom. The second, is that role players would like some actual physical features so that we may roleplay our loyalty and devotion to our chosen god; something which all others religions can freely and readily do already.

My suggestion on how to implement this is also not without controversy. There will always be some fans who wish to see Crom continue to have nothing at all, and I respect that. So I propose that this could be packaged as a DLC as opposed to a free content update. That way those who want Crom to continue having nothing would not have it forced upon them, and those of us who seek to see Crom venerated and better represented can buy it. Personally at this point I would pay ANY asking price to have some Crom themed weapons, armour and decorations. This has the potential, carefully designed, to be the best DLC pack to date. If not, it could simply be a findable recipe or taught by a trainer.

Although Croms religion doesnt provide any benefit, it inspires his followers to create their own benefit ; the very essence of a God of self-determination! Funcom has openly stated that they utilise lore from the entire Conan Universe, and as it stands now there is more than enough lore and interest to support expanding upon Croms in-game role and features. I like many others want to proudly display my allegiance to my chosen deity at my fortress and in battle; something which followers of all the other Gods already can. And I encourge Funcom to give this further consideration, and for all other members to have their say.

For CROM!! :mountain_snow: :metal:

Please Note: I am not arguing specifically for the changes listed here. These are intended as starter suggestions. We all have different perceptions of what features Crom should offer and what they would look like. Think of voting for this as supporting the concept and call for change rather than the specifics. This is a petition, an archive of lore references, and a collection of the communitys suggestions. I also encourage visitors to pay attention to my posts which are headed with boldface and capitalised, as they contain lore referenced facts.

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What if there was a sword you had to craft From just steel. But here is the catch, Crom is about you doing things yourself.

You would craft the great sword in smelters (t4 smelter needed).

Then that sword has a timer before it defaults to a normal steel sword. lets say 1 minute.
Before that timer runs out you must take it to the black smiths and craft it to the next level (flawless) with more steel.
there is another 1 minute timer and you must dip it in water and craft a perfected from it.
After cooling it, another minute timer and you must take it to the smelter sto reheat, another minute time and then back to the black smiths table (t4 blacksmit needed, any) for more steel and cool it once more to created a perfected flawless Sword of Crom, 85 DMG and 30% armor pen, and very heavy, but also durable. Cannot be modified or repaired, but can have the handle dyed. Make the steel cost exteme, and the craft times at the stations be 30 minutes. If you want to make this sword, it will take a minimum of 2 hours. You must work for Croms gifts.

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Crom does not answer prayers. The strength you get from your struggles and perseverance are Croms gift to you.

You’re welcome lol

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Dude, no

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Im into the idea of being able to craft a special sword if you pick croms religion. The steel sword conans dad carries in thefirst conan movie would be great for it too.

Or maybe you get 1 extra attribute level in strength. That would be cool and subtle. And it goes away forever if you learn another religion.

But i like it the way it is.

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Yeah the sword would be more in line if you made a b…h to craft and use only steel for the blade. Crom gives nothing, but rewards extreme effort.

CROM IS NOT ACTUALLY ANSWERING A PRAYER IF YOU BUILD IT YOURSELF IN THE HAND CRAFTING MENU

or in your blacksmiths bench. We are NOT advocating that Crom answer prayers or lend aid to the player. What we are asking for, is that the player be allowed to handcraft some weapons or ornamentals so that they can proudly display their allegiance to him, especially when going into battle. So therefore, he is not actually helping or intervening, if we build these items ouselves in either the Handcrafting Menu or Forge. Just as say if I built a sword or table in my tool shed, it would be me creating it not Crom. This is very different to say food appearing in a bowl (Ambrosia) at a Mitra shrine or transforming branches into an arrow made from a snake (Snake Arrows) at a Set shrine. Those are the acts of a deity and worship which require a religious shrine to build. These however would be something which the players in game character is building with his own two hands, to pay tribute to Crom, not something gifted by Crom himself.

For the record: I am not advocating at any point in this thread that Crom offer direct help.

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Crom does not answer your prayers

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:mountain_snow: :cloud_with_lightning: CROM LORE RESOURCES (FAST FACTS) :mountain_snow: :cloud_with_lightning:

[NOTE: many of these are heavily summarised events due to length. The full, extended versions can be found throughout the thread.]

  • His gods were simple and understandable; Crom was their chief, and he lived on a great mountain, whence he sent forth dooms and death. It was useless to call on Crom, because he was a gloomy, savage god, and he hated weaklings. But he gave a man courage at birth, and the will and might to kill his enemies, which, in the Cimmerian’s mind, was all any god should be expected to do. ~The Phoenix on the Sword.
  • Crom came to power by defeating the ancient demon Shuma-Gorath. In an act of desperation, the early humans who suffered beneath him cried out to Crom for aid. He instructed them to read from three Iron-Bound Books. Upon doing so, Crom appeared as a Flame-headed Storm Cloud, overwhelmed overwhelmed and subdued the demon with Lightning, then imprisoned him in what was renamed Ben Morgh (Mount Crom).~Conan the Barbarian 1#260.
  • Conan and a group of Cimmerian captives freeling from Hyperboreans invoked the ‘Wrath of Crom’ in order to defeat them. Following a summoning ritual, a great chasm opened in the up ground, and a Leigon of Undead Warriors emerged and slew the hapless Hyperboreans.~Savage Sword of Conan #157.
  • Conan and a band of Kozaki raiders are trapped by a snowstorm and avalanche. His former allies having turned on him, starving and freezing, Conan is close to death. Suddenly he is called before Crom and his Undead Warriors, who admonishes him to live. Conan awakens with renewed vigor.~Savage Sword of Conan #110.
  • Facing a dishonourable and unworthy death at the hands of a malevolent sorcerer, Crom intervenes to save him from certain death, so he may have a more glorious one. Conan slays the sorcerer and later makes only his second Sacrifice ever to Crom (a goat) as restitution.~King Conan #8.
  • Crom and a Statue of him seated on a throne are found in a cave on Ben Morgh where he watches over the Burial Mounds, known as the Fields of the Dead, wander aimlessly for all eternity.~Conan the Valorous.
  • When a boy is born a Ritual asks the gods grant it the Power to Strive and Slay.
  • Crom was known to hurl Star Metal Meteorites (also referred to in-text as 'Croms Rock) at his enemies Ymir and his Frost Giant children in battles…AND a group of Cimmerians who were foolish enough to ask him for direct aid during one of those battles.~Age of Conan.
  • Star Metal is percieved by the Cimmerians as a gift sent by Crom.~Conan the Adventurer.
  • Weapons have been forged as a trbute to Crom. Most notably Croms Hammer, and Conans Fathers Sword. The runes on its blade are translated as: “Suffer no shame ye who wield this in the name of Crom”. ~Conan Exiles, Conan the Barbarian
  • “They (Cimmerians) did not practice Human sacrifice, for it was their belief that their gods were indifferent to the fate of men”. ~Notes on the various Peoples of the Hyborian Age.

Croms Afterlife:
“…Crom’s realm of ice and cloud” ~Queen of the Black Coast.
“…dying, their souls enter a gray misty realm of clouds and icy winds, to wander cheerlessly throughout eternity”. ~Queen of the Black Coast.
“Their gods are Crom and his dark race, who rule over a sunless place of everlasting mist, which is the world of the dead”. ~The Phoenix on the Sword.

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Oh ok, good argument.

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Yeah guys I would be super happy with even a weapon or weapons. Or a passive strength bonus. His fathers sword, which I think was called the Draconian (please correct me if Im wrong) would be cool. And Valericas Valkyrie armor which she saves him in at the battle of the mounds.

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When times are good, Crom has given you his blessings. When times are hard, Crom has allowed this to happen so that you may grow through adversity. So also blessings. Sometimes you get blessed by Crom really, really hard. Truly the most wondrous of gods.

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(From September post) The forge is the shrine of the Cimmerians. The belief in Crom makes them stronger itself. I agree that Crom doesn’t listen. Howard was all about "that which does not kill you makes you stronger. " The belief makes the Cimmerians stronger, like hammering, heating and iceing steel at the forge. Performing dangerous tasks for the Teacher of Crom (a task in the deep desert and one on the coldest mountain) would give players + strength, + grit, + survival.

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He certainly does not answer my payers, nor would I want him to (stated with politeness). For the record, that is NOT what I am advocating here. The weapons, armour and decorations would be built in the hand crafting menu or the blacksmiths bench by the player character (and maybe his thralls), not by a God or at his shrine. It would in no way whatsoever come from Crom! It would just be emblazoned with his style/insignia or whatever the case may be, as a way of paying homage and displaying my allegiance to him. Much in the same way I would build signs and banners to pay homage and show allegiance to my team at a football game.

Thankyou for your support on this one Timstah, and for having the courage to go against the grain on this contentious issue. Even the act of reading about the forge was enthralling for me, and a cool idea too. Crom can be more noticeable in this game without simply being a towering monstrosity which smashes down buildings.

EDIT: for any who would like to read the discussion, here is the link to Timstah’s original suggestion:
https://forums.funcom.com/t/mountain-top-forge-teaches-crom/37635

Hmm. :thinking: Not 100% sure if I know what the point you are trying to make is, but ill take a stab at it. Unfortunately Im going to have to disagree on this one Robarbarian. This essentially argues that Crom has a role in our fortunes. He does does not create the situations/circumstances, he only created our coping/adaptation mechanism. WE cope (strive/overcome) through our actions. As Robert E. Howard stated: little does he care if men live or die. His sole gift to men is at the time of their birth, where he gives them will and courage, and the ability to slay and survive. But he doesnt give people blessings or adversity, they are independent of him, and giving good or bad fortune either way would be lending them aid; he only gave us the strength to deal with them. Crom is all about self-determination. He gave us the drive and tenacity to succeed, but the rest we must do and solve ourselves. But you are certainly right about how wonderous he is with his teaching methods! Experience is the best teacher.

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Crom doesn’t answer your post :wink:

Well, it is clearly stated that Crom doesn’t care to be worshiped and is even feared to attract his attention. Furthermore it is said, that while every Cimmerian is a follower of Crom, there is no priest of him. Thus it would violate the lore to do any deeds or building regarding Crom. The closest thing I can imagine is your first suggestion. But even then, giving someone an advantage by just selecting the religion would be unfair to others, since you have to build altars and gather resources to utilize their benefits.

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I am first and foremost a Howard fan, and i applaud Funcoms decision to stick so closely to the Conan lore in making this game. They have recreated a Hyborian story here; and done a great job of it.

Maling Crom into a gameified mechanic eould fly in the face of all that. Crom is perfect as he is. Remember…

“It was useless to call on Crom, because he was a gloomy, savage god, and he hated weaklings. But he gave a man courage at birth, and the will and might to kill his enemies, which, in the Cimmerian’s mind, was all any god should be expected to do.”

Besides, Crom already has an avatar. Conan. Conan cuts you down and gives you a chance to live or die on ypur own merits.

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It was a joke and not intended to be lore-accurate. It was less about Crom and more a criticism of certain religious dogma IRL. The point I was failing to make is the ludicrousness of crediting the concept of God for all of existence and everything good, while absolving it of any responsibility for anything bad and passing the blame onto the victims of the cosmic creation, including the concept of the devil (even accounting for the supposition of free will). Oh, and be grateful for the loss of your legs, you’ll be a better person for the experience!

Crom seems more reasonable by comparison, at least he’s honest. Though such irresponsibility is hardly deserving of worship if you ask me. Not that Crom would care. He’s like a father who teaches his kids basic motor-coordination (that nature somehow didn’t imbue them with) then idly watches them playing in traffic. Truly barbarous. All hail Crom!

If Crom was in the game…IF Crom was in the game, the player should have 1 of 3 random events happen

  1. Crom does nothing.
    whatever is being crafted breaks and disapears, whether its a religous armor/weopon, or specialtyitem related to Crom.

  2. Crom is angered
    Any priests under the players ownership immediatly dies, anything around the religous temple, owned by the player is destroyed

  3. Crom is pleased
    “Blessing of Crom” buffs the player for 12 hours, increasing health and vitality

Summoning:

same as above, however if he’s anger, becomes an NPC and begins to imediatly destroy everything.

THAT would cover Crom. It’s better not to pray to him. chances are he will be angered, or do nothing at all

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